The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing 26" or 24" Barrel on an 8mm/06 A.I.Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Now before anyone says that the Ackley Improved version of the 8mm/06 is not worth the bother, take into consideration that I have: 1: A set of RCBS 8mm/06 A.I. dies. 2: 100 Norma cases already fireformed. 3: Lots of 8mm/06 A.I. load developemnt under my belt. I had an 8mm/06 A.I. built on a "43" vintage J.P. Sauer 98K action. Unfortunately the barrel was turned a bit too thin & it would walk POI as the barrel warmed if zi did not wait 20 minutes between shots. I now have a heavier contour Persion Mauser barrel to instal on the same action & have done the layout to cotour the barrel W/O removing any more material than neccessary. Having the 1st 14 3/8" of the barrel tapered @ .003" per inch from a .604" muzzle & then sweeping it @ a 7'1" radius would result in a 26" light/medium weight sproter barrel. Trimming back to the 1st step would & then sweeping @ a 6' 10" radius from the 12 1/8" long .647" muzzle section would result in a 24" medium/heavy sporter barrel. The weight would be about the same, but the 24" barrel would be just a but stiffer. Would the 2" additional barrel length be worth the slight disadvantage in handling & the slightly less stiff barrel? GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | ||
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A 24" will give you the vast majority if not all of what that case and bore can give you and to me be far better handling. As usual just my $.02 Paul K | |||
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24". The 06 case and all its variations are pretty efficient and I doubt the 2" from 24 to 26 is going to add 40 fps. Mike Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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That & the fact that the 24" profile will be stiffer & probably be more accurate is making me lean that way. The barrel ia already trimmed & crowned @ 26" though. I was going to use it for an 8X68S, but I was able to salvage the action & make it feed the smaller "06" cases. That & the fact than 8X68S caeses are now over $2 apiece made me look @ reviving the 8mm/06 A.I. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Interesting project W J. I know what you mean about having most of the pieces to a project, which influences its completion. A few years ago, I got interested in the 8x68S, but eventually decided against it because of the odd size brass, cost of brass, and finding an action to feed it in. Instead of the 8x68S, I got a Redding die set in 323 Hollis, and a new reamer, and about 250 pieces of Norma .308 mag brass. Later I got a good deal on a Ruger 77 MKII SS 300 Win Mag. Also with my package of pieces is a 8mm LW SS #1400 barrel in 10" twist, and a Hogue stock. And I have close to 1,000 220 gr Hornady 8mm bullets, plus several hundred Remington and Sierra 220 gr bullets. That project needs to be completed. I think I'll go with a 24" barrel. Good luck on your project. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Sounds like u have a great project going there! If me, I'd go with a 24" barrel - Think the rifle would be some handier. PS: I used that 200 NPT in my 8x57 - Great bullet! ________ Ray | |||
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Another 8mm that I think is interesting is the 8x60S. I have some brass and dies in that caliber too, and I know a gunsmith with a reamer. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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i would think 24" would be plenty of barrel with that case as said. twist might be more of an issue with the currently available range of bullets. | |||
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This project was already completed in 2000 & I killed several deer W/the gun, but I made a few hits just a bit off & even missed a standing shot @ 190yds from a rest.. (most of my shots are @ 240yds & more) The barrel was turned down & the profile was very thin. Too thin I think as it would not hold POI for consecutive shots "walking" them towards 11 o'clock as the barrel warmed. It would also throw the occasional "flyer" 2" or so out of the group. I sold the barrel to a forum member that did not need pin-point accuracy. The stock & action lanquised for about 7 years till I cleaned off the bench & started reloading & tinkering again recently. The stock is quarter sawn fancy Black walnut W/ebony grip cap/forend tip & a Pacmyre (sp?)decelerator pad. I think it is a "Montana Sporter" pattern. It has a Harris bolt handle welded to the bolt & 3 position M70 style safety. It allows for very low scope mounting & the gun fits me like a glove. My 1st shot W/the gun was @ a doe running dead away @ about 110 yds down a horse trail on my farm. I placed the crosshairs on the root of the tail & hit her in the back of the head. I'm going to definately go W/the 24" contour. It will have a muzzle diameter of .647" & I hope the heavier profile will hold 100yd groups to 1" or less W/O cooling between for @ least 3, preferably 5 shots. I do not understand why there is concern over the military 1 in 9 1/2" rate of twist. From what I understand, the 1 in 11" rate of twist used in the 8X68S was due to lightly constucted bullets of the era not being able to stand the spin of faster twist rates. I think the 1 in 9 1/2" twist will do great on the 180-200gr bullets I plan to use. Even 220s would work @ that rate I think. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Taking two inches off a 24" barrel makes more difference than adding two inches. I think that 24" is going to be just about perfect. The only advantage the extra two inches would give is if you used iron sights on the gun and thus got a longer sight radius. The trade down is that those extra two inches over 24" are less "handy", add more weight and that at the wrong place! | |||
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KB, You still trying to get that 323 together what the heck... I'm off on another progect trying to get my 7mm Gibbs completed... Have all the part well minus the bolt for the rifle, my wife is supposed to be looking for it lol... Also have the lead on another gunsmith I will PM you his info... John Handmade paracord rifle slings: paracordcraftsbypatricia@gmail.com | |||
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Depending on how you hunt, I'd go with a 26" barrel. More MV is the reason. I have four rifles now with 26" tubes and all shoot very well. | |||
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The above information seems to be exactly what you need! However, I just like 26" barrels! They make the rifle look better! Just my opine! Rusty We Band of Brothers! DRSS, NRA & SCI Life Member "I am rejoiced at my fate. Do not be uneasy about me, for I am with my friends." ----- David Crockett in his last letter (to his children), January 9th, 1836 "I will never forsake Texas and her cause. I am her son." ----- Jose Antonio Navarro, from Mexican Prison in 1841 "for I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." Thomas Jefferson Declaration of Arbroath April 6, 1320-“. . .It is not for glory, nor riches, nor honours that we are fighting, but for freedom - for that alone, which no honest man gives up but with life itself.” | |||
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You were the one who motivated me to go with the 323. I'll finish it hopefully by next summer. Best Regards, KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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I think you've got a potential accuracy issue which is much more important than barrel length. You are changing the contours of a finished barrel. This is asking for trouble. Recontouring a finished barrel can result in introducing stresses which may cause shots to wander as with your original barrel. It may not have been its light contour, but rather the fact that it was contoured subsequent to finishing, that resulted in its performace. | |||
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I have researched this a lot & the consensus from reputable, experienced gunsmiths that have done this a lot is that re-contouring a barrel DOES NOT impart stress, but it can release stress that is already in the barrel. From what I have gathered, this is particularly true of button rifled & I would assume to a greater extent, hammer forged barrels that are not stress relieved prior to re-contoiuring. Since the Mauser military barrels are, in all probability, broached to rifle the bores, I would think that these would probably have less imparted stress than the previously mentioned methods. The original barrel that was on this rifle had the steps turned out in a constant taper that ran all the way from the muzzle to just a few inches ahead of the chamber area. The muzzle was about 0.550" in diameter. The barrel was very thin right up to about 6" from the receiver. Removing that much material probably did release a lot of internal stress, @ least there was not much metal left to resist warping minutely as the barrel warmed W/consecutive shots. This new barel is a heavy contour 29" 98/39 Persian Mauser barrel. Cutting it back to 24", I plan to leave the 1st 12" from the muzzle untouched @ 0.647" dimaeter, then re-countour the remainder @ a constant 6'10" radius so that the diameter 2 1/2" from the threaded end will be 0.891", leaving a 0.0455" step to the 0.982" chamber diameter. A 0.090" radius will clean this up @ a 1/8 turn radius. Removing this amount of metal should not result in the "walking" I experienced W/the pencil thin barrel that was originally on this rifle. Only a relatively short 9 1/4" section starting just behind the midpoint will be re-countoured & the most that will be removed from the barrel wall will be about 0.040" where the barrel wall thickness will be about 0.160" @ it's thinnest point. Dennis Olsen will be the gunsmith performing the work & I am sure he knows what he is doing. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Wildcat, Thanks for your response on my comments on recontouring a finished barrel. I mostly agree with you. In regard to "internal stresses", I think it is perhaps more accurate to say that recontouring "changes the stess characteristics" rather than it either "introducing" or "relieving" stress. I'm certainly not saying that recontouring automatically degrades a barrel's performance. I do believe that the potential to degrade the barrel's performance is somewhat proportional to the amount of metal removed (and how hot -- or uneven in temperature -- you get the barrel in the process), and that the amount you are talking about in your current project probably, in and of itself, is unimportant. Good Luck! | |||
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Perhaps a good, albeit more pronounced example is the way a piece of lumber warps as it is cut. The thinner the piece that is left, the more pronounced the warp. There is less amtterial to counteract the stress that is already in the piece of lumber. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Are you sure? I would have thought that German Mauser rifle barrels were cut rifled and not broached...but will stand corrected if others say I'm wrong on this! | |||
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Either or. I'm not sure exactly how they did it, but I assumed it was before button rifling came into widespread use. Broaching is merely cutting all the grooves @ once. It's still a cutting process as opposed to a pressing/displacement process like button rifling. GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Broaching and cut rifling, for all intents and purposes, is the same. Both remove steel and not displace it. Removing steel in a bore along the center axis, is broaching. It doesn't make any difference if it is one groove or several. Early barrel makers did it one groove at a time because they were pulling the broach thru with their own strenght. Today it's done mechanically or with hydraulics so they can cut more groove at once. As far as stress goes, cutting the rifling will impart less stress than button rifling. Cut rifling can release stress, if the steel hasn't been stress relived prior to broaching. This can also be bad. All barrels are contoured after rifling unless you want a 1.25 in. dia. barrel full lenght, it's a might heavy, even for a varmiter. SCI lifer NRA Patron DRSS DSC | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Guns, Politics, Gunsmithing & Reloading Gunsmithing 26" or 24" Barrel on an 8mm/06 A.I.
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