I bought a Mannlicher Schoenauer rifle. It came with an old Oigee scope and claw mounts/bases, but Cabelas had accidentally tried to twist instead of lift the front mount out of engagement, and the mount to scope solder mount broke (no ring in front, just mount soldered to scope). I can unscrew front lens, but the reticle lens is only about 1 inch back from solder point. I think I'd better dis-assemble it before soldering it, but I'm a little afraid to. Can't find any dis-assembly instructions on the web. Anybody taken one of these apart? I guess I could just acraglass it. Appreciate any thoughts.

Yes, I have taken them apart; they are very simple inside. the rings aren't silver soldered; just lead soldered so melt at low temperatures. The reticle should be in a sliding piece inside so it can move for adjustment; usually only for elevation on these old german scopes.

Try to match the original solder.
Silver SOLDER [about 450F ] Silver BRAZE is much higher melting at about 900 F .Don't confuse the two !! For oldies use lead solder.

The original solder used is lead/tin. Any solder containing silver can't have a very high percentage of silver in it; as silver melts at 1700F. For example, the common lead free solder we use is 95% tin and 5 percent silver. It is also expensive to have much silver in it.

If you heat the tube to red hot, the area heated will generally twist, buckle and heave up like a pretzel. It will also carbonize and not reblue properly. Clamp the two parts lightly with flux and lead solder in the joint and heat the base with a soft propane flame. Rosin flux generally works best for this. I've soldered a few over the years and also soldered back on the objectives of Targetspots and Leitchertz that have been crushed in cases or which have fallen over. I've wreaked a few soldering them too. Govern yourself accordingly.

Thanks guys,

There's still a tinned patch of solder on both parts. Might be able to clean, flux, and heat, and have it bond.

Still concerned with the scope dis-assembly. It is only elevation adjustable dpcd. Looks like three screws in front of the elevating mechanism, but not sure how to release the lens.

Did you remove the elevation turret? They are simple and are pretty intuitive to disassemble, but it has been a while since I did one and I am sorry that I can't give you more detailed instructions. I do have one of those Ogee scopes here but I don't really want to take it apart.

Lee Le Bas in Nevada makes a specialty of repairing these old scopes..,everything! If you don't get that joined exactly where it belongs, you can have big problems

This is not a job for average gun crank,,,sure says something about the experts at Cabela's

As Duane says, soldering those back on is not as easy as it seems. If it means something to you, I would send it to someone that does it all the time, has made all the mistakes and has an idiot proof method of doing them. Like I previously said, in my 35 years of gunsmithing I have soldered quite a few. But as I also said, I have also wreaked a few. It's not as easy as it seems and the surfaces should be cleaned back to bare metal and resoldered to get a good joint. Then the body and base reblued to keep it from rusting, the scope repurged with inert gas and properly sealed to keep it from fogging.

skl1
Good luck with your "experiment".

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Lee Le Bas in Nevada

Does anyone understand why the Germans insisted on soldering on demi-rings instead of just clamping full rings? Frankonia knew of the latter in 1963 but only used them on .22s. The soldered scopes all got totally stripped beforehand - making them dearer to mount than the more-expensive dural scopes with rails. I suspect snouts in the trough.

quote:

Originally posted by sambarman338:
Does anyone understand why the Germans insisted on soldering on demi-rings instead of just clamping full rings? Frankonia knew of the latter in 1963 but only used them on .22s. The soldered scopes all got totally stripped beforehand - making them dearer to mount than the more-expensive dural scopes with rails. I suspect snouts in the trough.

There is an old German saying sambarman338:

Why make something simple. When it is so easy to make it complicated !

Speerchucker: In this case "No use to cry Maria, that's where it gotta go"

quote:

Originally posted by Duane Wiebe (CG&R):
Speerchucker: In this case "No use to cry Maria, that's where it gotta go"

Fortunately, there is a place it can go. Maybe I'm just acting like an old peckerhead, but every year there are fewer and fewer of these types of specialists that can work on stuff like this. But, it's the same in every industry. The old is replaced by the new sooner or later.

Thanks for all the help.

Stripping the old solder and re-soldering with the new lead solder went great. Rifle shoots to the scope now, though I had to cut the front mount on the mill before resolder.

Lee was very nice and helpful on the phone.

The lead solder sure did work/flow easier than the silver solder I've used for iron sights and bolt-face bushings.

Does anybody use lead solder for those applications anymore? Or too weak a bond?

Thanks,
Steve

When I solder anything on weapons etc., I use Sn95Ag5 (95% of tin, 5 % of silver). It is about double the strength of Sn60Pb40 or similar.

When brazing is possible, I use this:

https://welco.cz/en/library/fi..._en/ET_1556F_pdf.pdf

I believe it can be found the same around the world.

Jiri

Strength ? - remember that a gap of 0.003" provides max strength for solder and braze !

The Germans soldered them on as it is more elegant and does away with protruding lugs and screws. And they used plain lead solder; way more than strong enough. We use the tin stuff now as it can be hot blued.

dpcd:

What do you call "plain lead solder" and "tin stuff"?

mete: If there is "large contact area", for example front sight ring soldering, Sn60Pb is more than enough. But if contact area is limited and I expect not only shear stress, but bending also etc., I use Sn95Ag5 if I can.

Yes, it is more expensive, but I use grains, not pounds.

Jiri

I use 96% tin with 4% silver in it; it melts at less than 500 degrees and is very strong. No lead involved as they used to use.; Problem is that hot salt bluing eats lead. Lead solder was, lead and tin, and other things in varying proportions.
Pure silver melts at 1750 degrees so it can't be used alone for soldering; that and the use of brass, is brazing.

dpcd:

I know a little how it works (written some stuff about that on my PhD studies), but didn't understand what is exactly "plain lead solder" and "tin stuff".

BTW also very good solder is Au80Sn20 ;-)

Jiri

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
The original solder used is lead/tin. Any solder containing silver can't have a very high percentage of silver in it; as silver melts at 1700F. For example, the common lead free solder we use is 95% tin and 5 percent silver. It is also expensive to have much silver in it.

Silver bearing low temp solder usually has 4% silver and melts at about 450*F. It will alloy quite readily with any other low temperature solder.

Jiri- from my plumbing days, I recall "plain lead solder" was 50/50 Lead and Tin.

Nowadays, plumbers use 95/5 Tin/Antimony.

Toss that ole scope and start over with a new set of rings and new scope is my approach to the problem..Those old scopes IMO are next to worthless..