Two things I am interested in. One is to cock on opening, the other is to 'float' the firing pin.

While the cock on closing is an excellent military concept, it is a bit awkward for hunting. The action is also a bit difficult to carry chambered and safe. Forget safety catches - that an accident waiting to happen. They bump off just be looking at them! A gun is only safe with the bolt handle up but with the Lee Enfield, this can throw the cartridge out the chamber and is noisy! Bolt open carry also lets dirt into the chamber and loses cartridges from the crappy magazine.

So, any thoughts on how to 'float' the firing pin to allow for uncocked, chambered, safe carry and/or converting to cocking on opening?
My rifle has a damaged bolt anyway (the half cock bolt locking piece is broken off). That's another thing, half cock is great in principal but is actually bloody dangerous as the rifle can fire during setting the half cock should the cocking piece slip out of ones fingers - which is all too easy!

I am not wanting a different action, just a solution to the drawbacks on the one I have.

If I recall correctly Dayton-Traister makes a cock on open kit for the Enfields. I think I saw them on the website when I bought the cock on open kits for my M96 Mausers. I do not recommend their triggers, just get the kit that comes with the cock on open kit only without a trigger included and buy a Timney or anything else for a trigger.
Good luck with your project.

I believe that the coo kit Dayton-Traister has is for the M1917/P14 Enfields.

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While the cock on closing is an excellent military concept, it is a bit awkward for hunting.

Why, other than it is not the way Americans do it? One method takes as much motion to operate the bolt as does the other. Cock-on-close requires much less effort to open the bolt than does cock-on-open, and very little more effort to close the bolt. In my opinion, this is msore a matter of mind-set and preference than real-world advantage/disadvantage.

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While the cock on closing is an excellent military concept, it is a bit awkward for hunting. The action is also a bit difficult to carry chambered and safe. Forget safety catches - that an accident waiting to happen.

Hunting? Cock on closing is designed for "hunting" the world's most deadly species....man.

Hmm! I carried these things...a No4...for about five years and never had a problem. The safety is pushed off with the TRIGGER finger not with the thumb.

The half-cock is there as a safety if the full-cock should break. It is designed to "catch" the sear pure and simple.

On the Pattern 14 or Model 1917 again I can't see the problem. Indeed the "Enfield Mauser" safety is more practical than that on the Mauser Mauser.

If you want to float a firing pin on a No4 (or SMLE) it is fairly easy. Cut off the front part of the striker that goes beyond the bolt body and about 1/8" behind. Put the bit you have cut off inside the bolt head and assemble the thing.

Rather like was done on the 22 rimfire SMLE and No9 conversions.

Any relation?

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Cock-on-close requires much less effort to open the bolt than does cock-on-open, and very little more effort to close the bolt.

The 'cock on closing' is way faster to operate, especially with the slick Lee Enfield.

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Why, other than it is not the way Americans do it?

No, just that when taking slow, deliberate, repeat shots, I find that the cocking on opening causes less sight picture shift and is much quieter to render the rifle safe if the shot opportunity passes - by just flipping the bolt handle up. From there, if the opportunity returns, it is real easy and quiet to close the bolt again, or, if it's over, to simply clear the chamber. It's just about comfort, not need. But I normally like carryin the rifle with the chamber empty and the bolt handle up and this is not good on the Lee Enfield because one tends to lose cartridges out the magazine! Also, this particular rifle has a damaged bolt anyway.

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Cut off the front part of the striker ...

I took the bolt apart to see what you meant. Easy when someone points it out! Thanks. But before I do it I will make sure I have a spare to back to (meaning I will make new parts rather than cut the original).

Examining the bolt I see just how easy it will be to convert to 'cock on opening'. A new or reworked, cocking piece, and a camming piece that fits behind, and engages, the bolt handle. No need to lose the half cock but no need for it. the floating firing pin won't work with the resulting shorter firing pin travel but there is nothing wrong with resting it on a short spring that holds it off the primer, together with a shorter and stiffer firing pin spring or a spring seat that uses the firing pin wrench slots to limit the spring travel.

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Rather like was done on the 22 rimfire SMLE and No9 conversions.

Now there's an interesting comment! I want to end up with a whole family of Lee Enfield based rifles, including a 22rf. (Possibly all fitting onto the same stock or at least butt-piece). Where can I find information on how the 22rf conversion was done?

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Hmm! I carried these things...a No4...for about five years and never had a problem. The safety is pushed off with the TRIGGER finger not with the thumb.

Interesting! Were you .... ?

Like I have said before - the Lee Enfield is probably the finest bolt-action battle rifle of all time! I refer to the No.1's and the No.4. The MkI's are the finest for sporting conversion in my opinion. (Which is not totally unbiased! ) But how does one operate the safety with the trigger finger? I must say I do think the safety on the SMLE and the No.4 is better than any other, (again, unbiased ...). But I had the experience of using the safety to make the gun 'polite' but when I took it off my shoulder again, the safety was off! No one was ever in any danger but the fact still remains - I made a mistake. So, never again!

Oh,I don't know: ask the Germans,the springfield 1903's are pretty good; but, I have wished, many times, that it would cock on closing.

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Oh,I don't know: ask the Germans,the springfield 1903's are pretty good;

Well, I finally got to try out a K98 original 8x57 on the range one day, and I wouldn't want to be at the wrong of it either. With just a little care, it cycled as fast as the Lee. I did feel the 'bind' but was prepared for it. It was pretty damn accurate too! I think the owner was quite pleased that I was able to hit my point of aim so quickly, once I got the hang of it. The Springfield was an 'improved' M98, so .... yes! But I do prefer the 'cock on closing' for quick shooting. My No.4 bush rifle will not be modified!



This one has a scope base made from an alloy bicycle crank arm. It is screwed, keyed and Loc-Tite(ed) on. It has passed the drop test when I dropped the damn thing onto the concrete floor, scope down - without the stock. The scope survived too!

All this is quite a long time ago and I have not handled a SMLE for over five years and a No4 for two years.

The conversion was done either by a purpose made "solid" 22 barrel. In other words a barrel drilled and rifled from the start as a 22 rather than a 303.

The other route was to bore out a 303 barrel to approximately 410 inside size. It was then relined with a rifled (unchambered) tube of 22 size.

The bolt head had the original hole (for 303) plugged or welded closed. An hole was drilled in a position to strike a 22 rimfire case.

The "end" of the striker was cut off and a new, floating, end made with an offset firing pin that fitted inside the bolt head.

A longer extractor was fitted with a greater "reach" on the claw to extract the fired 22 case.

The rifle was chambered with a chamber reamer and the existing groove cut through the wall of the 303 barrel re-cut or "continued" into the 22 barrel at exactly the same previous angle and profile.

On the SMLE you would have to set the rear sight to about 450 yards (I think) for correct aim at 25 yards.

You will see SOME 22 SMLE rifles with the bottom of the bolt head ground at an angle. This is only require if using a Hiscock magazine.

Try here:

http://www.rifleman.org.uk/index-15.html

But this is better:

http://enfieldrifles.profusehost.net/sc.htm

Some of the pictures of the Hiscock are of a rifle I once owned!

303 Guy:
I read, somewhere, that the jungle carbine suffered from a wandering zero as a result of the stock configuration; what is your experience?

It is a myth. Those that have owned and shot them report no such problems. It is said that this was "invented" by the British Army to ensure that finally they got a self-loading rifle rather than be "fobbed off" yet again with a bolt action..the No5!

Hell, I hate to hear that! Back when you could pickup a mk4 for little or nothing, I was afraid to buy one for that reason. I should have known better: I was on exchange to a British regiment for a year in 1965

I would say it is quite possible for the Lee Enfield to have 'wondering zero'. Especially the No.5 Bush Carbine. All it takes is a little rain water and a lot of jungle heat and humidity. But as soon as a barrel is free floated, all those problems go away - same as any other rifle, I would say. But I have never experienced any of that as I have always free floated any rifle I had - including my 22 Remington Sportmaster.

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Well, I finally got to try out a K98 original 8x57 on the range one day, and I wouldn't want to be at the wrong of it either. With just a little care, it cycled as fast as the Lee.

?? I'm a big Mauser fan but? Brits are known to have achieved above 30 rounds aimed fire per minute with the cock-on-close Lee Enfield. Not saying other designs won't do that but I have not personally heard of it.

Respectfully
DH

I did a demo for a hunting mate the other day - dry firing. Cycle, aim and fire with the Lee Enfield is stunningly fast! A bit faster with dry firing as there is no recoil recovery time but cycling would take place during recoil recovery anyway. With a bit of practice it is real fast! Does that 30 rounds a minute include reloading? Do-able, but it is pushing it. To me, the Lee Enfield becomes a bit awkward with slow, quiet, deliberate cycling of the action.

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Does that 30 rounds a minute include reloading?

Yes. But there is a well known "trick" hat was taught in WWII. The thumb and index finger work the bolt as normal. But the SECOND finger is sued to actually pull the trigger. That way the user never actually lets go of the bolt handle throughout the whole cycle.

I've have somewhere an original British Army Memorandum telling how it is done. So it was an officially sanctioned method.

Interesting! When I said "reloading", I was refering to reloading the magazine. I wonder just how accurately those quickly fired shots would be? I know I shoot better with a 22LR under 'rapid fire'. That means 5 shots in 20 seconds - a far cry from 30 shots a minute. But recharging the magazine and maintaining speed and accuracy! I could maybe aim and fire a shot every 1 1/2 seconds for ten shots but that would be all! We do a thing called "Rabit" at the club which entails holding the rifle on the ready at waiste hight and pointing at the target, then on the call of "Rabit", three seconds are counted out in which time we have to raise the gun to our shoulder, acquire the taret, aim and fire. That's actually four seconds. Not easy, and sometimes some of us don't get our shot off. I am better at this than most. That's because I take a deep breath and hold it while waiting for the call. (That and the fact that something happens inside my head, giving me an adrenalin rush!)

Yes, that included recharging the magazine. One of the incidents I read of this rate of fire being reached had the shooter firing around 35 rounds in a minute. It was not just "cyclic rate of fire" but an actual number of rounds fired from a rifle with a ten round magazine. Additionally, the shooter was not just cranking off rounds but shooting at a target, or rather an aiming point. My memory may not be correct but I seem to recall the target being used for rapid fire training being something like 18 in. diameter and the distance being 200 yds. If my memory is wrong I welcome correction (is there a Brit out there?).

I have read of one account where the rifle was fired prone and the NCO got off 37 rounds in a minute using the middle finger to pull the trigger.
The author of the article was a Brit old enough to have carried his #4 to school each day. The author said he never got better than about 30 rounds in a minute.

That is amazing! I did once fire off three rounds at a running target in a time period which seemed to take forever but a nearby witness only heard two shots! I got the critter in the heart by avoiding bone on the first shot before it could dive away. Then place the next shot to avoid bone and reach the boiler room from behind. I have no idea how I did it! It must be that adrenalin rush again! The last shot was to put it down again! These were placed shots which I estimated to be no more than two seconds apart. That was with an Anschutz 22 hornet - really slick rifle! (I must confess I have developed an admiration and respect for our humble feral goats!)

I bought the "Cock on Opening" adapter for a P14. The only difference was in the location of the lug on the striker. All P14/17 raise the striker some on opening. The kits striker's location was farther to the rear so that it didn't engage the sear until it was at the location of this initial lifting. This provided for a much shorter striker fall Which in my case wouldn't ignite a large rifle primer. I went back to the original setup. On the positive side, eventhough the conversion wouldn't fire, it had a real nice trigger pull.

To properly convert to cock on opening, one has to weld up the cocking notch and remachine. It is a bit of a problem because the small diameter of the bolt makes for a steep cocking cam if one is to have striker travel over 3/8 inch. Also the striker spring must be much heavier.
The Lee Enfield has a damn good safety (Though a bit complex IMO) which locks the striker to the rear. I don't see the problem here.
I have one #1mk111 which has no safety at all. I use either the half cock or I carry with the bolt handle up and a cartridge partially chambered. This if a shot is "likely". If a shot is truly imminent, the thing is ready to go and my finger's on the trigger! I have converted a couple of target No 4's to cock on opening but would not do it for myself on my own rifle which indicates how I feel about the conversion. Regards, Bill.