In Namibia recently the PH pulled out his battered old rifle. I was intrigued as I’d never seen one before. It is a 1904 Portuguese Mauser, made by DWM.

The most noticeable feature is the split rear receiver bridge. But it also has hinged bottom metal, like the 1909 Argentine.

How common are these in the US? I had to come home and look it up in my Olson book.

This rifle was originally chambered for 6.5 Portuguese, but due to lack of ammo the PH had it re-barrelled and re-chambered to 7x57. It has some “character†for sure.

- stu

If it doe the job ? ok! even if a blacksmith worked on it !

The next time you hunt with him bring him a new rifle.

The rifles themselves aren't exactly common place but they are around. The bottom metal used to be fairly available and fits a 98 like it was made for it.

Here are two examples on the left next to some Argie 1909 bottom metal. You can see tha the one in the middle has been cleaned up considrably. The locking screw holes welded up, serial numbers welded, and the release welded & reshaped for a better fit in the bow. Only thing remaining is some recontouring of the bow. Nice bottom metal when it ws available.

/

Stu
these rifles are not rare in OZ , most are in 8x57, they were converted by the Portuguese government in the 30's from the 6.5's. i'm led to belive that Alan Hibbs of Kingeroy firearms has quite a few of them stashed away and I own 2 of em

zlr – nice metal. Looks like it cleans up very well. Strange we always hear people looking for the Argentine unit, never this one.

Alf – the PH has owned it a while but I seem to remember him saying it had come out of Angola, exactly as you’d expect.

I didn’t know the mount came from the factory like that. Thought it must have been cut and “adapted†to fit. Interesting. We see the Lynx brand scopes and mounts advertised a fair bit in Australia. I remember they always push the “designed in Africa†theme, but I don’t remember them pushing the "made in Australia"!

It may be more Mannlicher inspired, but it’s still listed in my Olson Mauser Bolt Rifles book

darwinmauser – had never seen one before, but seems like I didn’t look hard enough. Actually being a lefty and not a collector I’ve probably skipped over many interesting rifles. I should pay closer attention to the old dusty ones at the back of the shop.

cheers,
- stu

/

I have never noticed or seen the similarity of the Mauser and the Mannlicher together. What is the quality of the metal [DWM...duh!], and does the action cycle smooth like a mannlicher? Last question, how much play in the bolt is there in the ones people have handled.

quote:

Originally posted by 333_OKH:
I have never noticed or seen the similarity of the Mauser and the Mannlicher together. What is the quality of the metal [DWM...duh!], and does the action cycle smooth like a mannlicher? Last question, how much play in the bolt is there in the ones people have handled.

333_OKH, these rifles are SMoooooooooTH ,with the uncocked bolt closed on an empty chamber there is virtualy no forward or back movement (I can't detect any)and with the bolt fully extended to the rear (open) there's about 1/4 of an inch latteral movement. opening the bolt half cock's the firing pin and closing it completes the job so your not putting all your effort into opening it like a Mauser 98. On the down side ,if you want to keep it in it's military configuration the bolt handle is a bit on the short side and the length of pull is for verticaly impaired people .
Ive got 2 of em, one's staying in it's military stock unaltered ,the other was bought for the bottom metal which it donated to another project but i'm seriously thinking of a full length mannlicher stock with a butter knife bolt handle and express sights (but with standard mod 98 bottom metal)in it's standard 8x57 caliber ,with 220 grain pills it should make a water buffalo's eyes water when I hit him in the arse with it.

Compared to a M/98 what are the pressure limits? This might meet the call for my new boar rifle. I need something like a 9.3X57 or 9.5X57 Mannlicher-S, but I want something a litte Bavarian.....future project, but I was wondering if this could also take the pressures of a 9.3X62??? I hate to take apart a 1K Mannlicher Sch for a custom rifle.

Can any of you post other pictures of this rifle, especially custom make-overs?

quote:

Originally posted by 333_OKH:
Compared to a M/98 what are the pressure limits? This might meet the call for my new boar rifle. I need something like a 9.3X57 or 9.5X57 Mannlicher-S, but I want something a litte Bavarian.....future project, but I was wondering if this could also take the pressures of a 9.3X62??? I hate to take apart a 1K Mannlicher Sch for a custom rifle.

Can any of you post other pictures of this rifle, especially custom make-overs?

Pressure limits should be about the same as a mod 33/40 although the gas escape system may not be as good as a 98.
the pictures in the link show an original 6.5 caliber rifle , when they were reworked to 8 mil in the late 30's, they shortened the barrel and added front sight ears.

http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/2069/mv04.html

quote:

Originally posted by 333_OKH:
Compared to a M/98 what are the pressure limits? This might meet the call for my new boar rifle. I need something like a 9.3X57 or 9.5X57 Mannlicher-S, but I want something a litte Bavarian.....future project, but I was wondering if this could also take the pressures of a 9.3X62??? I hate to take apart a 1K Mannlicher Sch for a custom rifle.

Can any of you post other pictures of this rifle, especially custom make-overs?

I think a Mann/Schoen. would be a lot more Bavarian than this contraption. What this gun really reminds me of is the Japanese Type I (for "Italian"??), which consists of the Mannlicher/Carcano receiver and bolt with Mauser type, staggered-round 5 shot box magazine, chambered for the 6.5X50mm Arisaka round.

This Verguero seems to possess all the bad features of the Mannlicher-type action, (bolt handle in the wrong place, geologically slow, long lock time, heavy striker, split rceiver bridge, etc.) with none of the good features of the Mannlicher-Schoenauer (ie., rotary magazine, magazine emptying feature, and double-set triggers!)

But, it could be made into a great sporter by changing the bolt handle to the butterknife type, installing a double-set trigger, and other refinements. But unless you did all this work yourself, it would cost more than the final result would bring.

What a scam! That is the gun the PH shows to his clients & they feel sorry for him & give him a new gun!

quote:

Verguero seems to possess all the bad features of the Mannlicher-type action, (bolt handle in the wrong place

Same place as the Mannlicher Sch, of which I have a few that I love.





In my opinion the finest smoothest action ever!

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:

I think a Mann/Schoen. would be a lot more Bavarian than this contraption. What this gun really reminds me of is the Japanese Type I (for "Italian"??), which consists of the Mannlicher/Carcano receiver and bolt with Mauser type, staggered-round 5 shot box magazine, chambered for the 6.5X50mm Arisaka round.


This Verguero seems to possess all the bad features of the Mannlicher-type action, (bolt handle in the wrong place, geologically slow, long lock time, heavy striker, split rceiver bridge, etc.) with none of the good features of the Mannlicher-Schoenauer (ie., rotary magazine, magazine emptying feature, and double-set triggers!)

But, it could be made into a great sporter by changing the bolt handle to the butterknife type, installing a double-set trigger, and other refinements. But unless you did all this work yourself, it would cost more than the final result would bring.

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It's obvious that your not keen on this particular model El Deguello ,however I think your criticism of the rifle is unfair, how many other MILITARY rifles came standard with double set triggers?
I own a Greek MS with the rotery magazine, the spool is a work of art which, the machining of, I can't even dream of aspiring to ,BUT you want to do a radical caliber change???? let the nightmares begin!
It does'nt matter which MILITARY rifle you start with , if you want to make a sporting rifle out of it ,and god knows your not doing it to save a couple of bucks, your going to replace the stock, trigger ,bolt handle ect ect 3ect.

cheers
Pete

quote:

What a scam! That is the gun the PH shows to his clients & they feel sorry for him & give him a new gun!

Maybe, but my old 1903 Springfield 30'06 and the similar 333OKH are ugly rifles, but historic. They shoot great with the period peep sights and they have seen the scratches of 10,000 rocks and vines. Damn they shoot too. I use the 333OKH on pig and black bear hunts all of the time and get laughs in camp, but no one laughs when a 300 grainer goes zipping through a pissed boar [either species].

quote:

Originally posted by darwinmauser:

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:

I think a Mann/Schoen. would be a lot more Bavarian than this contraption. What this gun really reminds me of is the Japanese Type I (for "Italian"??), which consists of the Mannlicher/Carcano receiver and bolt with Mauser type, staggered-round 5 shot box magazine, chambered for the 6.5X50mm Arisaka round.


This Verguero seems to possess all the bad features of the Mannlicher-type action, (bolt handle in the wrong place, geologically slow, long lock time, heavy striker, split rceiver bridge, etc.) with none of the good features of the Mannlicher-Schoenauer (ie., rotary magazine, magazine emptying feature, and double-set triggers!)

But, it could be made into a great sporter by changing the bolt handle to the butterknife type, installing a double-set trigger, and other refinements. But unless you did all this work yourself, it would cost more than the final result would bring.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's obvious that your not keen on this particular model El Deguello ,however I think your criticism of the rifle is unfair, how many other MILITARY rifles came standard with double set triggers?
I own a Greek MS with the rotery magazine, the spool is a work of art which, the machining of, I can't even dream of aspiring to ,BUT you want to do a radical caliber change???? let the nightmares begin!
It does'nt matter which MILITARY rifle you start with , if you want to make a sporting rifle out of it ,and god knows your not doing it to save a couple of bucks, your going to replace the stock, trigger ,bolt handle ect ect 3ect.

cheers
Pete

Nope! I too love the Mannlicher-Schoenauer, and have owned five of them. Just have three left, two Greek M1903's and a more recent commercial version (7X57mm). But my love for them is despite some of their design features, probably mostly because of their superb workmanship and delightful compactness. And they are as good as any in situations that don't require fast shooting.

I suppose as a military weapon, the Verguero is about as satisfactory as most, except of course for the clunky old ugly SMLE, which almost everyone recognizes as the most effective FIGHTING bolt-action rifle of them all.

/

ALF


Please allow me a small correction to the name of that rifle’s model:

Its VERGUEIRO, named after the captain of the Portuguese army that designed the action: Alberto José Vergueiro (1851-1905).

B.Martins

quote:

Originally posted by El Deguello:

I suppose as a military weapon, the Verguero is about as satisfactory as most, except of course for the clunky old ugly SMLE, which almost everyone recognizes as the most effective FIGHTING bolt-action rifle of them all.

I resent the word "clunky" they were the best battle rifle of there time because of the speed that you can open and close the bolt and fire aimed shots,(38 rounds p/m)the 10 round magazine and the charger reloading system .Ugly but nicely balanced.

Still interested in seeing anything old or new that was used for sporting such as the PH's rifle above. I find this a very interesting action? I do not mind the bolt location and it would make a great rough country rifle for bear and boar.