THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM GUNSMITHING FORUM


Moderators: jeffeosso
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
Hard to open bolt after dry firing
 Login/Join
 
One of Us
Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted
I have an FN Mauser with a dakota 3 position saftey....just got it back from the smith...

bolt open and closes fine except after dry firing lift in the bolt after the firing pin has dropped is very stiff...

never seen this before...what say ye


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
First things I would check are the cam surfaces of the cocking piece and the bolt. Might be grit, metal or lack of lube that is making lifting the bolt difficult.
 
Posts: 313 | Location: Alaska to Kalispell MT | Registered: 06 January 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Take the firing pin out and put some synthetic EP grease on the threads and on the cocking cam. If that does not fix it take it back to the smith.

A typical bolt takes about three to four pounds to lift it from the fired position. This is with a fish scales hook on the bolt knob.

Don't do any polishing as the smith is responsible for it's operation.


Join the NRA
 
Posts: 5543 | Registered: 09 December 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Check the camming surfaces for galling.

If the bolt handle has been replaced, it is possible that the surface on the bolt has been annealed.

Apply a good synthetic lube, I like the Shooters Choice grease that comes in a syringe, but any good synthetic will work.

-Spencer
 
Posts: 1319 | Registered: 11 July 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted Hide Post
guys...you need to dumb it down...the camming services?...EP synthetic grease on the the threads? what thhreads? on the cocking cam?

In english with big pictures, small words...


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
I have an FN Mauser with a dakota 3 position saftey....just got it back from the smith...

bolt open and closes fine except after dry firing lift in the bolt after the firing pin has dropped is very stiff...

never seen this before...what say ye


Mike, it's all great advice, but, let's take a look at it like this. First, what did the "smith" do to the rifle? In order for the rifle's bolt to operate smoothly, it requires a certain amount of lube EVERY PLACE metal touches metal. Without it, the pieces will drag against each other causing sluggish operation, premature wear and damage. So, as previously suggested, the first thing to do is to make sure that there is lube everywhere metal touches metal. On the threads of the bolt's shroud, on the firing pin spring and body. Where the cocking piece rides back and forth in the bolt shroud. On the camming surface in the cocking notch, on the back of the bolt lugs, every where metal touches metal. Use whatever lube you have on hand to see if that is the problem. If this doesn't solve it, then before you do something irreversible, STOP and contact the "smith".
 
Posts: 1374 | Registered: 06 November 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted Hide Post
The smith rechambered the rifle and installed a dakota 3 positon saftety.

Bolt opens and closes just fine on empty chamber as well as loaded chmaber.

Only stiffness is when I "dry fire" with an empty chamber or with a spent case in the chamber. When I go to open it is like somebody put a really heave spring in the bolt and cocking the bolt back takes a lot of effort...


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
The smith rechambered the rifle and installed a dakota 3 positon saftety.

Bolt opens and closexs just find on empty chamber as well as loaded chmaber.

Only stifness is when I "dry fire" with am empty chamer or with a spent case in the chamber. When I go to pen it its like somebory put a really heave spring in the bolt and cocking th bolet back takes a lot of effort...


Then, the bolt assembly is either too dry, or there is not enough clearance between the cocking piece and the safety cam, causing too much drag as the bolt is cocked. Call your gunsmith.
 
Posts: 1374 | Registered: 06 November 2005Reply With Quote
new member
posted Hide Post
It honestly sounds like the safety wasn't properly fitted and/ or deburred. He had to cut a slot the bolt shroud and the cocking piece in order to install the safety. There could be burrs on the inside of the shroud and/ or the cocking piece that were not removed. You would not have any resistance when the gun is cocked because the firing pin and cocking piece are being held in place by the trigger. When you dry fire the gun they move foward inside the bolt body and bolt shroud. If there are any small burrs they could be galling the inside of the bolt shroud and creating large ammounts of resistance.

There could also be metal shavings inside the bolt shroud which would do the same thing.

If there are no burrs or metal shavings inside the shroud the camming surface of the bolt body could need a pin head ammount of grease applied to lube it up.Just a very very very small touch of high pressure grease is sufficient.

If all he did was install a safety there shouldn't have been enough heat to cause the hardend surfaces of the bolt to become annealed and gall.


BTW, the cocking piece is the part that sticks out hte back of the bolt when in the cocked position in rests against the trigger. This is actually the part that is keeping the gun cocked.

The camming surface is a cut in the very back of the bolt body on the underside. It looks like a "V" leaning over to one side. The angled part is the camming surface and this is the surface that actually pulls the cocking piece rearward so it can engage the trigger and cock the gun.

The bolt shroud is the part that the cocking piece moves in and out of.
 
Posts: 22 | Registered: 15 November 2005Reply With Quote
Moderator

Picture of Mark
posted Hide Post
I'd agree with all the previous posters.

If you are a little corn fused about the terminology, I'd suggest removing the bolt and hosing it down with WD40 then try it again a couple times. If it is still stiff then as Mr Malmborg says it needs to go back to the smith. If it loosens up a bit then you can relubricate it with something more proper and you can get talked through that process, but no need to do that now until you determine the problem is only lack of lubricant.


for every hour in front of the computer you should have 3 hours outside
 
Posts: 7778 | Location: Between 2 rivers, Middle USA | Registered: 19 August 2000Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted Hide Post
Bigbulls,

Thanks for the great response...


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
Bigbulls,

Thanks for the great response...


What, you didn't like mine? Big Grin
 
Posts: 1374 | Registered: 06 November 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Mike_Dettorre
posted Hide Post
Malm,

Yours dummied it down for a normal dummy...big bulls took it to my level


Mike

Legistine actu quod scripsi?

Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.




What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
 
Posts: 10169 | Location: Loving retirement in Boise, ID | Registered: 16 December 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
If some pictures might help look at this site:
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting/mauserboltdisassembly/index.asp
 
Posts: 313 | Location: Alaska to Kalispell MT | Registered: 06 January 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Mike:

If trash is not the culprit, It sounds like your smith got your bolt out of time. I would send it abck and tell him to fix it right this time.
Longshot
 
Posts: 322 | Location: Youngsville, NC | Registered: 23 April 2004Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Mike,
I don't know how stiff your "very stiff" is, but most dakota safetys/bolts I have operated do take a little more cocking effort than your standard mauser. For all we know, what you have could be normal.
Also, your smith might have replaced the firing pin spring with a stronger one which would increase the effort to lift the bolt knob.

Wes
 
Posts: 213 | Location: Missouri | Registered: 15 October 2003Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by malm:
quote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
I have an FN Mauser with a dakota 3 position saftey....just got it back from the smith...

bolt open and closes fine except after dry firing lift in the bolt after the firing pin has dropped is very stiff...

never seen this before...what say ye


Mike, it's all great advice, but, let's take a look at it like this. First, what did the "smith" do to the rifle? In order for the rifle's bolt to operate smoothly, it requires a certain amount of lube EVERY PLACE metal touches metal. Without it, the pieces will drag against each other causing sluggish operation, premature wear and damage. So, as previously suggested, the first thing to do is to make sure that there is lube everywhere metal touches metal. On the threads of the bolt's shroud, on the firing pin spring and body. Where the cocking piece rides back and forth in the bolt shroud. On the camming surface in the cocking notch, on the back of the bolt lugs, every where metal touches metal. Use whatever lube you have on hand to see if that is the problem. If this doesn't solve it, then before you do something irreversible, STOP and contact the "smith".


I had a similar problem but with stock M48 Yugo. It turned out to be something was out of spec. with the Mauser "flag" safety. Replacing the stock flag with another one fixed the problem. I never did figure out what dimension was wrong, but then I'm not a gunsmith Big Grin

I'd say it's time to let the gunsmith have another go at it hammering

Hope this helps.

Roi


DRSS member

Constant change is here to stay.
 
Posts: 626 | Location: The soggy side of Washington State | Registered: 13 July 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Timan
posted Hide Post
There are a couple of mechanical possibles here that lubrcation can't fix.
1. check out how tight the theads are on the safety shroud with the bolt. If those are too tight it will be difficult to re-cock it.
2. If the safety lever plunger is too long it will interfere with the back of the bolt.
3. If the bore in the Dakota safety that the cocking piece travels in is too deep the firing pin will crash into the inside of the bolt either at the spring flange or where the pin is sized down to go thru the bolt face. This will cause a sticky and hard bolt lift, if the pin is hitting inside the bolt the action will have kind of a dead sound, it won't have the hard wack sound that healthy action has.
The firing pin must pass thru the safety freely
the double D shaped broached hole in the safety could be tight. The bore in the safety could be tight or even tapered near the bottom. These are all things I've seen with those safeys in the past.
Timan



 
Posts: 1235 | Location: Satterlee Arms 1-605-584-2189 | Registered: 12 November 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
Sometimes the trigger sear gets out of time because someone has made an adjustment. If the cocking piece on the end of the firing pin fails to hold the sear down it will block the gun from opening. What trigger do you have in the rifle? Remove the trigger from the action and try opening. If this is the problem take it back to the smith that worked on the bolt.
 
Posts: 965 | Location: Texas | Registered: 19 May 2004Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata  
 


Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia