Ok. I see posts all the time saying what is expected of a gunsmith, or product manufacturer. I always hear or see �I expect �X� level of service or quality from service provider. My question is this. What is expected of the customer? If they do not conduct themselves in a civil manner then what are the repercussions? What if they fail to pay? At what point to you cross the line where it is no longer time to be nice? Lately I have a lot of customers that have crossed the line, but I have not. I will admit my lip was bleeding from trying to refrain from holding in what I really wanted to say or do.
I am curious on what you guys think.
Limerick

I was in biz for myself at one time.....over 10 yrs. I am glad I had the experience...and i'm glad i'm out. One thing to remember..."people can be assholes"....it's human nature.

Limerick33

In 23+ years at this location, I've only had to 86 one customer, I've only had 2 returned checks (both cops) and only had to sell one firearm back about 1983...

What kind of problems you having?

Malm

In college I ran my own computer business, but my customers drove me insane so I quit doing it. Despite the fact that I made a lot money at it, I decided I would rather tackle psychiatric patients for $8 an hour to pay for college.

I feel for any business owner that has to try to satisfy customers on a regular basis.

Todd

In life we all have to deal with data, things and people. It is good to know what makes you happy, and then do that. If you are not good with one area, then by all means try another.

I admit some customers are difficult to the point where I decline the opportunity. I have a guy who calls me for a $1,500 quality bull elk hunt, and is noisily unhappy when I tell him it is not a happening thing.

jim dodd

After 10 years working by myself as a gunsmith my comfort with unpleasent customers are still "What goes around comes around"....

My 5th customer during my shop opening days claimed I wrecked his dioptrict sight when I bedded his gun...of course I had not been near his sight bedding the gun but at the time I figured I'd just had to put up with it and replace his sight(at the time I had no experience and no money...)

The very next week my customer slip on ice fals and brakes his stock and his new sight...

Somewhere in this story I figured I came out of it alright!

S

hmm, interesting.. and I'll tell you this, lots of it depends on the price/uniqueness/impact.

basically, you treat them EXACTLY as you would want to be treated. Notice, I didn't say deserve, but want.

customer's POV
If you are buying light bulbs at wally mart, then you have an expectation of instant use, on the purchase, and a reasonable amount of life and lite. $2.00

If you are having a custom X made to your specifications, and are paying lots for it, nad you keep to that end, then you deserve to be well treated.

If the customer is an ass, but you took his money anyway, you have to finish the deal, or give him his money back.

however, from the provider's POV

If the customer is unreasonable... then you might have to explain (in writing) that you have meet your end of the deal, and if the customer is unhappy, for him to please write down exactly what he feels is the issue, and mail that to you. Mail is the "least" emotional way to handle this. NOT email.

if the customer's "demands" are reasonable, after thought, take care of it, if they are not, then don't.

But, you will always face the challenge that, at least in texas, if you don;t "make it right" he can go anywhere, have it fixed, and has the option of sending you the bill.

Think of it as a car dealer. If you take your car in a couple times, for warranty work, and it keeps having the same or even different problems, there comes a point where it's understood that the car dealer aint going to make it right. You then go to an AUTHORIZED repair place, and send the bill to the dealer or warranty provider.

jeffe

[ 12-19-2002, 18:12: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

If I you want good customer service, you have to be a good customer.

ZM

As a store owner and as a customer I think Zeke said it right.
When you walk in a store you should expect good service and the best of the clerk's knowledge.
Nobody knows it all.
You should be recognized when you enter the store (greeted) even if all clerks are busy and thanked when you leave even if you made no purchase.
I wanted my staff to ask, "What may we show you?"
In other words...you are going to get service...just give us a hint as to what you wish to see.
There are certain question that can really set a retailer off such as:
"I can buy it cheaper at....."
"Store X has it for $ so will you sell it to me for that?"
"I can order that out of the catalog for...."
"I will give you $X for that."
Please give me what is printed on the price tag. That is what I need to make a six letter word called profit and profit is how I stay in business.
If the customer can do all of those things then why is he having the conversation with the store person? Go over to the first place and get it.
Often retail stores feel they are just the place where the buyer comes to 'finger' the goods before buying from a catalog or some Mart Mart store. That does not leave a good taste in a retailers mouth.
I had one man want to return a pair of new Danner boots six months after purchase. He said he did not get to go on the hunt.
Then there are those that buy, wear and want to return items as new and unused for a cash refund.
Texas law states you do not have to give cash refunds. I did not but I did exchange goods or give you a gift certificate for the same amount that was good for 2 years from date of issue.
Some folks wanted cash for something given them as a gift.
Then there are those customers that you love to see walk in the store even if they do not buy anything at that time.
The good news is, there are more heads of horses than there are the other end. The other end can sure ruin a day tho.
Everyone needs to work retail....once in life. It will make you a better customer anywhere you go.

[ 12-20-2002, 03:25: Message edited by: Harry ]

When a potential customer is pricing some of my gunsmith work and he informs me that so and so does the same job for less money my reply is "If you are shopping for the best price and not for the best work I suggest you take it to so and so."

Another one they are good at is buying a gun accesory at a discount and bringing it to me for fitting or installation. I used to let it bother me but now I just smile and make an "adjustment" to the labor charge.

I used to order parts for customers but I had a lot of problems when the customer did not fit the part correctly. Then when the part would not function properly they wanted the part replaced. I also learned not to order the part with out a substantial deposit. Ordering parts is a pain in the neck and I only did for good customer relations. Now the only time I will order parts is for very good customers, they were not the ones causing me problems in the first place.

I have seen plenty of inappropriate behavior from unreasonable buyers, and a little bit from arrogant sellers.

It is a free country (well, sort of), so gunsmiths are free to charge what they want and turn down any work they don't want. Us customers are free to spend our money where we want. If my gunsmith padded the labor in a sneaky way because I bought a scope base from Midway, I wouldn't go back. My local guy here bills me pretty conservatively, so I don't mind getting parts through him sometimes. Maybe I'm weird but I like shopping for my own stuff and I like it to be exactly right. So I use a 'smith who does not mind working that way...or at least he has me fooled...

I don't know what customers expect to accomplish by being rude...maybe they watch too much television and see lots of pushy people get their way; maybe they weren't scolded enough as children or something. I am an optimist and I still think nice guys will finish first eventually.

One of my goals in my business (nothing to do with guns or retail) is to be able to walk away from clients whom I don't enjoy working for.

After a reasonable attempt to discuss a problem, customers should pay the bill and express their opinions (good or bad) with their dollars next time around. Life would be a lot better if both sides would take responsibility for communication before and after the job.

Craftsman, I have that same problem from time to time where a guy complains about my prices, but I take comfort in something my younger brother said to me once. He said, "If you not getting occaisional complaints about your prices, then you are not charging enough. Because even the cheap bastards out there think you're reasonable." Boy is he right. I get more whining about projected delivery times. Not long ago, when I told a guy that the projected delivery time on a rifle was from 6-8 months, he told me, "Well,so and so said he could build me one in a month." I told him that he probably ought to send it to so and so then, but I'd be a little worried about the quality of work of anyone that did not have any backlog, because everybody that I know that does good work has a fair backlog.
I'm not going to be rushed, because you can't be rushed and do good work.

(sorry for the rant)
Let's get the straight...
The customer, just like the service provider, expects and should demand, the best deal he can strike. If he feels that your price is too high, he might ask you to come down. This might be that he WANTS to give you the business, but you are might be too high to him.

Further, comparing prices is exactly what a service provider does to get his best price, right? You can not expect someone to walk into your shop, see the same things he can get on midway or brownells, for more, and not ask for a better price. You wouldn't do biz with midway if they didn't offer you a better price than your clients.

You work hard for the money you earn, and so does your clients. That should be remembered, as well as that they ALWAYS have a choice.

Btw, if you have special orders, and you require a non refundable deposit, you would be foolish not to be HAPPY about a 2 min phone call to passthrough profit. You are not out of pocket, the customer is paying for it up front (sort of) and most places will return it, you pay shipping, if you don't like it. If the company won't return it, simply tell the customer that it's 100% to buy it, make that ONE phone call, and wait for your business to earn it's money. Doesn't cost "you" anything, but can buy you tons of good will.

Sorry to rant, but it bugs the heck out of me for people that SELL goods and services (meaning they also buy them) getting upset when people want the best deal they can make.

jeffe

[ 12-20-2002, 19:01: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

Pandy

In regard to charging more labor when the customer furnishes the parts. I did not imply that I "padded" the labor charge in some sneaky manner. The estimated labor for the project is quoted accurately up front before he makes the commitment to commission the work. There are no suprises and no hidden charges. I always quote the anticipated cost of any work planned and make a notation on the job ticket so there are no surprises and no misunderstanding.

Charging slightly differant labor is a matter of common business practices. If you were to install a recoil pad. The labor would be $30.00 and say the retail cost of the pad was $30.00 and the customer's total cost would be $60.00.The pad may have cost the gunsmith $20.00 so the gunsmith made $40.00 dollars for that transaction. The next guy comes in with his own pad, if the gunsmith charges him $30.00 the gunsmith just lost $10.00 dollars profit. If the gunsmith wants to stay in business he has two choices he can charge $40.00 labor or he can decline the job. If he does the job for $30.00 he will eventually go broke and the guy who got his pad wholesale doesn't have anyone to install the next pad. Charging the extra labor is not punishing the customer to make the gunsmith feel better, it is plain business, you have to make a certain level of profit to stay in business.

I don't blame the customer for trying to get a product or service for the best price, we all do that. However when you are shopping for something that requires a good deal of skill and equipment to do a good job it is false economy to shop the lowest price. Gunsmiths can do cheap work and they can do quality work but they cant do quality work for a cheap price.

I have to agree with Jeff . We are all customers at one time or another and I believe we all look for the best deal. Note I did not say necessarily the lowest price. I will ask a provider why is your price X when I can get it from somewhere else for Y . I then expect the provider to tell me why he gets X for his services . I think this is something many providers forget , or dont realize , but I dont know to do said service , thats why I am looking for someone else to do it and because I dont know how to do said service there may be things that are required to do the job correctly that I, the customer ,have no clue of.There may also be things that you include that the other guy does'nt. In my business I always try to explain fully what I propose to provide and have found that many of my customers then realize why there is a price difference. That does not always get me the job , but atleast I dont leave the impression that I was just trying to take advantage of them and that gets them to call me again in the future.