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| I think I read the same thread. Pretty obvious the guy has never machined 17-4 or 17-7. That stuff eats tools like a 10 year old just returning from his "trick or treat". To make a barrel that has the possibilities of being a 'shooter', first the steel chosen has to be machinable, preferably without destroying your tooling. Lots of opinion there, most of it BS spoken by an "internet trainee", I would think. According to the guy that wrote that post, the entire industry is wrong about their material choices. Imagine that!
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| | | Posts: 714 | Location: fly over America, also known as Oklahoma | Registered: 02 June 2013 | 
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| Good to hear. One of the best gunsmiths I know off has basiaclly told me the same. Done some searches on the temp claim and seems the 416R is good to -40C. Reason I was asking is because my last 2 barrel have been made of 416R SS. Got concerned.
"300 Win mag loaded with a 250 gr Barnes made a good deer load". Elmer Keith
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| | | Posts: 172 | Location: Canada | Registered: 06 August 2003 |
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| I am NOT going out to shoot or hunt in zero degree F temps, let alone sub zero degree temps!
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| | | Posts: 714 | Location: fly over America, also known as Oklahoma | Registered: 02 June 2013 |
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| While living/working in WI, I had the chance to see a few SS barrels that had failed (split). Boots Obermeyer was the first one to tell me about low temps and SS barrels.
Personally, it would give me pause |
| | | Posts: 3615 | Location: Phone: (253) 535-0066 / (253) 230-5599, Address: PO Box 822 Spanaway WA 98387 | www.customgunandrifle.com | Registered: 16 April 2013 |
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| In today litigious society, if 416R was a problem, not a barrel maker or firearms manufacturer would use it. But, 416R and barrel failures was not really the essence that the thread Canada and I referenced, even though the thread mentioned that. The guy would posted claimed the barrel makers use 416R because it wears out faster, and they can sell more barrels that way. He had a bunch of other off the wall ideas, also. As far as I am aware, Krieger is the only custom barrel maker that gives any warning or pause to 416R for rifle barrels. Steels change all the time. If there was a problem in the past, it has been corrected, IMO. We, who visit these interdnet gun forums, would have heard the complaints of 416R SS barrels failing and the resulting law suits that would have certainly follow. Just look at the popularity of SS actions made of 416R. The engineers at the manufactures would have nixed that idea if there was doubt. After all, all those engineers are just 'insulation' from the insurance companies and their lawyers!
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| | | Posts: 714 | Location: fly over America, also known as Oklahoma | Registered: 02 June 2013 |
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| I am pretty sure Krieger has minimum diameter restrictions for their SS barrels, me says they know that SS is weak at certain temps, I hunt in Saskatchewan and the temps do indeed plummet to the -30 C on a regular basis during the end of the deer season which we hunt. I would not question their judgement.
BB |
| | | Posts: 401 | Location: CANADA | Registered: 06 April 2004 |
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| I’m told Bartlein also has minimums.
410R is a better barrel steel. |
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| I can't remember the details of my conversation with my smith who is very knowledgeable on steel.He named the composition materials of proper steels.What I understood was SS barrels are crap.The best steel is what Heym uses second comes Lothar Walther.Very hard steel cannot be button or cut rifled and can only be hammer forged.There are a lot of lies on the web and hunting and shooting forums are full of industry folks giving misleading info.The SS steel LW uses is hard and a special steel not 416R.I think the proper barrel steel is tool steel.You want your barrel to last not melt after a few rounds. |
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| This thread is "better'n the funny papers".
NRA Patron Life Member Benefactor Level
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| quote: Very hard steel cannot be button or cut rifled and can only be hammer forged
Damn??? Do they hammer forge the chamber and the threads too?  |
| | | Posts: 42345 | Location: Crosby and Barksdale, Texas | Registered: 18 September 2006 |
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| quote: Originally posted by slivers:
In today litigious society, if 416R was a problem, not a barrel maker or firearms manufacturer would use it. But, 416R and barrel failures was not really the essence that the thread Canada and I referenced, even though the thread mentioned that. The guy would posted claimed the barrel makers use 416R because it wears out faster, and they can sell more barrels that way. He had a bunch of other off the wall ideas, also. As far as I am aware, Krieger is the only custom barrel maker that gives any warning or pause to 416R for rifle barrels. Steels change all the time. If there was a problem in the past, it has been corrected, IMO. We, who visit these interdnet gun forums, would have heard the complaints of 416R SS barrels failing and the resulting law suits that would have certainly follow. Just look at the popularity of SS actions made of 416R. The engineers at the manufactures would have nixed that idea if there was doubt. After all, all those engineers are just 'insulation' from the insurance companies and their lawyers!
Well...I saw two SS barrel failures with my very own eyeball as Boots' shop. They were not 416's..I've forgotten what caliber they were, but something smaller. Yes, SS can be used as long as you put plenty of material around the hole. Note Kreiger: Their SS barrels are,caliber by caliber larger than their chrome moly. |
| | | Posts: 3615 | Location: Phone: (253) 535-0066 / (253) 230-5599, Address: PO Box 822 Spanaway WA 98387 | www.customgunandrifle.com | Registered: 16 April 2013 |
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| quote: Originally posted by JTEX: quote: Very hard steel cannot be button or cut rifled and can only be hammer forged
Damn??? Do they hammer forge the chamber and the threads too?
The chamber is typically forged with the rifling, the threads are cut after. Side note, when muzzle threading a buttoned or hammered barrel use the largest possible minor diameter as removing steel tends to cause the bore to expand and that can ruin accuracy. |
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| Lothar Walther produces button rifled barrels. The stainless they use is not anything like 416R. You need a solid setup and a good reamer with properly staggered flutes or you will have a nasty fluted chamber. I wouldn't chamber one using a steady rest. Not saying I haven't. But even with good results, now I would only chamber one of their stainless ones through the headstock where you are driving the barrel at the chamber and not 24" away (like PO Ackley did, 3jaw & steady rest) with the twisting and harmonics giving you fits. 416R cuts like a dream in comparison. If the thought of a lightweight 416R barrel makes you twitchy, LW sells SS barrels down to 550" at the muzzle. If you send one of these lightweight preturned barrels to a gunsmith that chambers using a steady rest, you MAY not be happy with the way the brass feels after firing. |
| | | Posts: 1861 | Location: Western South Dakota | Registered: 05 January 2005 |
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| quote: Originally posted by JTEX: quote: Very hard steel cannot be button or cut rifled and can only be hammer forged
Damn??? Do they hammer forge the chamber and the threads too?
Yep! Chamber, tang threads, extractor cut AND muzzle brake threads! Now I'm an engineer, not a gunsmith, but that statement is utterly preposterous. Other than Stellite, perhaps, I'm pretty sure any barrel is "soft" enough to machine.
Doug Wilhelmi
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| | | Posts: 7503 | Location: Texas Hill Country | Registered: 15 October 2013 |
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| I recently picked up some Heym barrel blanks from Numrich. The bores are extremely nice on them, but I will attest that reaming a chamber in them is incredibly rough. I takes a lot of cutting oil and a lot of polishing afterwards... they have shot extremely well though. They were prechambered blanks from their bolt gun line and had perfect light contours to re-purpose for Howa Mini’s.
Shoot straight, shoot often.
Matt
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