From August 2004 The Accurate Rifle page 65...

"the Mauser factory used something like fifteen different followers just to feed the cartridges for which they chambered."

That's true. Mauser also used different magazine boxes to accomodate the various cartridges as well. Winchester also followed this practice with the pre-64 Model 70 until the short belted-magnums were introduced.

This is were a great many modern gunsmithing efforts with Mauser actions fail, and fail miserably. Someone will set out to create a .338 Winchester on a 1909 action, make various alterations to the bolt face, extractor, and feed rails, yet won't do a bloody thing to come up with a magazine box and follower that are mathematically-correct for the cartridge. And then these brainiacs wonder why they are experiencing feeding problems, or can barely get three-cartridges down in the magazine...........

AD

www.blackburnmachine.com

AD

Ask and ye shall receive.



Are these a drop in proposition? If I order the correct guard bow assembly, magazine and follower will work still be needed to have it feed properly?

Thanks Allen.

The correct magazine and follower will cause the cartridges to stack and slide properly. Work to the rails and ramp may still be needed for the cartridges to feed properly.

I've seen an 8x57 mauser converted to 7x57 not feed properly until the follower was changed. There probably was only a few thousandths of an inch difference, but it made all the difference in the world.

Allen Day
I've never had a problem feeding a 338 mag out of a slightly elongated 09 Argentine magazine. If you are looking for deals at the local gunshow then there will be a large percentage of cheap "customized" mausers that will not feed worth a $hit. That doesn't mean it can't be done right the first time. I do agree with you about having the right mag width for the round inserted, but I have never failed to feed a short mag consistantly from a standard military action. You talk like it is not possible. I beg to disagree.
gunmaker

I didn't really give this concept one thought until I purchased a Pre64 M70 338 Mag that was in pretty good condition. This rifle fed perfectly from the left side of the magazine but required a VERY hard push to get it to feed from the right side of the magazine.

I took the rifle to a gunsmith to have him do some work on the rails, etc. to get it to feed. He tried it and said before he would touch it I should check to see if it had the correct follower. I then mailed the follower to the guy I bought the rifle from (he is a Pre64 Win collector and has tons of parts). He mailed me back a correct short mag follower. He also confirmed that the follower I had previously was for the standard 30-06 class of cartridges.

I installed the short mag follower and the rifle fed so smoothly you would not even think it was the same gun. Funny thing is, looking at the two followers side by side it was extremely difficult to tell them apart. The short mag follower was wider by just a teeny amount.

I'm really glad the gunsmith (Bolsa Gunsmithing) did not just take the gun and go to work on the rails with a grinder and file. Definitly a lesson learned.

Tim

Rod, yes, even with a proper box the receiver will have to be reworked and fitted with the new parts.

Mausers are only a bargain when you first buy them. Then the price starts going up in a hurry!

AD

allen is correct and you are also to a point, but not having to correct a mauser for feeding is something that I have never experienced. In a sense they will all feed but not reliably and certainly not smoothly, having to push a round in and feeding smoothly are worlds apart in feel. Lets not generalize about the simplicity of the feeding geometries required for smooth and reliable feeding.It could be a very minor adjustment or a complete rework but understanding what is involved is not for the uninformed.
bigbull

bigbull
Poor quality work is the main problem for feeding issues. The massive availability of the 98 Mauser being sporterized by those that do not understand adds to the general perception that it can not be done. With so many out there for pennies I'm sure more have been done poorly than not. I still have never had a problem feeding a standard 98 with a diet of short mag rounds based on the 338win as a parent case. My elk rifle is a 30-338 on an Argentine 09 and it holds three under the bolt with one in the pipe. Every round feeds like glass slow or fast and when the bolt is slammed back and forth the rounds will not pop out of the magazine. It single feeds without any extra effort.

Usually when Mausers are fed by amatures they tend to do WAY TOO MUCH to the feed rails and this just ruins the action. Most feeding problems I have seen have more to do with the extractor than the oversize short mag case in a military magazine.

I do agree with those that think actions/magazines should be built for a specific size of ammo, but I'll stick to my guns here and say again that a short mag can feed properly and very smoothly through a military Mauser. And it can be done right the first time!

gunmaker

I just can't agree. Paul Mauser did the engineering, did the math, and came up with the concept -- not me. The Mauser 98 was designed to work as a correctly-engineered SYSTEM, not some cut & try hodgepodge, with a .375 H&H-size bolt face, a 7.65 Argentine-size box, plus feedrails that were overworked in order to make up for magazine box discrepancies that were not properly attended to in the first place. There's a difference between feeding and FEEDING, and if magzine capacity and feeding is to really and truly work as intended, Mauser's formula simply must be followed. And the aftermarket parts are available to make it so.

AD

Mr Day
I wish you would read my whole post. If you don't agree with everything then you can't agree with yourself. Please read them compleatly again. There are no hidden messages and you will see that I do agree with you about an action being built around the ammo.

I'm guessing that your stubborness about short mags not feeding from military magazines may come from experience. Have you tried this yourself, had poor results and convinced yourself that if you can't do it then it can't be done? I could personally show you otherwise. I know other smiths that can do this as well.

If I'm ever blessed with the chance to walleye fish that awesome Columbia River I'll have to bring my 30-338 look you up and let you shoot a box of shells. Then you can tell me that even if every round feed like glass from a variety of positions, and they will, it's just not possible???

I still agree with Mauser in providing the proper enviroment for feeding, but I know there are many good possiblities available to those who are willing to push the envelope!

gunmaker

Try this exercise:

Imagine you have a rifle with the bolt closed on an empty chamber. 3 rounds (or 4) in the magazine. Now imagine cutting through the action just behing the case heads of cartridges.

Discarding the rear portion, visualize looking at the rear of the front half of your rifle. Carefully draw what you see on a piece of paper.

Let's assume we have a right hand action originally designed for 7X57 with 4 rounds in the magazine.

Notice the bottom round sits on right side followed by left, right with top round on left.

See the bottom round sitting on the follower between follower hump and magazine wall? Next round will have its (approximately) 4:00 clock position touching round underneaths (approximately) 10:00 O'clock position. This round, in turn will also be touching next rounds 8:00 position with its 2:00 position. So forth.

If this this is hard to visualize draw it out. Don't worry about scale.

Now we can see the magazine spring, follower, box, cartriges and feed rails all working together. Do you see that our top round is NOT touching the bolt? That the upward force of the spring, follower hump, and relationship of all rounds work to keep the top round ready to feed? That the alternating feed rails work to guide rounds toward chamber AND prevent top round coming loose before it time?

Disturbing this relationship slightly by rechambering to a 6.5 X 55 or 30-06 has very little, if any, effect. Even changing to rounds of the same case head but less taper (ackley improved)will have little effect.

Now visualize what happens if rechamber to a 6.5/285, belted mag or WSM. Notice that we've disturbed the relationship of upward force and force designed to hold top shell against feed rail?

Do you see what needs to be changed?