When parts are colour case hardened ,are they more rust resistant? Is it fairly durable? Does it make the engraving last longer/more wear resistant. I was thinking of getting the bottom metal on my custom gun colour case hardened, mainly for cosmetic reasons and would like more info on it. Are there any good books which deal specificly with engraving/blueing/case hardening etc to give me more info on it?

My understanding is color case does nothing for rust prevention and will dull with age if not protected. I think lacquring (sp?) is the prefered method.
I do like the looks though and am interested in what others can offer on this.
Good luck with your project....Joe

Roger,

Would you agree with what i have heard others say that the biggest point in favor of Doug Turnbull's Case hardening is not the fact that he gets such great colors, but that he has learned to minimize the warping more than others by coming up with a way to do the case hardening at lower than usual temps? I heard that this is why he is able to do Ruger No. 1's with their modern steel without ruining them.

I think Jerry Fisher should send me his 505 Gibbs with the case colored double square bridge action so I can test the exposure to UV light. :-)

Red

I wouldn't let anybody case harden a CroMoly action of any type. Period.

Will,

The truth is, I'm not a metalurgist.

That said, I would think any action that was originally case hardened would fit into that catagory. Honestly, I think you might be hard pressed to find someone to "color" case harden a bolt action.

I would post your question on the forum and hope Burgess would chime in. He has the expertise.

A big reason why actions are not case hardened today is because the hardness does not penetrate through the entire receiver and over hardens certain places.
You will see older guns like the Colt SAA with the frame color cased and a blued cylinder because:

A)The cartridges they used back then such as 45LC and 44-40 were low pressure compared with today's cartridges.

B)Most of the strength in a revolver is in the cylinder itself which was not cased therefore not weakened by the process.

Also in thin places on the receiver such as around the threads it becomes hard, brittle and weaker therefore inviting disaster if a modern high pressure cartridge were fired in it. Potentially the action could split in half in the shooters face and really ruin your day.

There really is not anything you can do with modern guns during the bluing process that would make the change colors like case hardening does.

-Spencer

If it is so dangerous how do these incredible color cased bolt guns keep popping up? Are they ruining these actions by casing them?

It seems the acid/cyanide process would be just fine for a bolt gun since there is no case hardening done to the receiver like in the bone charcoal method. But the colors are not near as vibrant and it doesnt wear as well.

Will:

I assume there are big liabilty problems.

Best solution for an explanation would be to call the people who do it.

I don't think cyanide hardening would be any better with ChroMoly. It's still red hot when they drop it in the water tank.

I am not sure which guns you are referring to.
However an acid-cyanide treatment is only a color process, it is not real case hardening as it does not penetrate, it is more of a chemical 'paint' that is applied.
A big downside of the process is that it offers no protection from rust or oxidation.
You will see replica guns such as Italian EMFs that use this process; imported with the frames laquered, and once this laquer wears off, the gun becomes very prone to rust.

You will be hard pressed to find anyone in the United States to do this process as cyanide and the EPA do not get along very well.

-Spencer

The best thing is to contact Turnbull Restorations and ask him, he has done bolt guns and he will let you know whether or not it is all right. I asked him some questions when I met him in January and he was a very nice guy.

Red

The only part I was going to get (or just thinking of getting hardened at the moment) was the bottom metal. The bottom metal will be custom made and was going to feature an extended bottom tang incorporating a grip cap. Maybe case hardening will not be a good idea as it will wear off the grip area? I did want something which was fairly rust proof because of sweathy hands in this area.
Considering that the bottom metal will be custom made ,what is a good metal for clour case hardening? I was thinking of using the steel from one of my favourite old barrels which is shot out. The the gunsmith was talking about a local buisness making it out od damascus steel?????

1018 or 12L14. Mild steel or leaded mild steel.

If I were having anything case hardened it would be Doug Turnbull. They do bone charcoal case coloring and everything I've ever seen from there is beautiful!

I spoke to Turnbull's company early this year about color case hardening a bolt action (specifically which actions would they consider) and they said they do not color case any bolt actions other than the Dakota. I didn't waste their time requesting a lot of details 'cause I wanted a CZ done but it seemed clear they had done others in the past and quit.

Tate, you're right, Turnbull used to color bolt actions but won't anymore. Scott Green (www.idahorifleman.com) uses someone in New Jersey (a heat treating company) who does a pretty good job.

I will be getting a local company near where I live in Australia to do it. He has a good reputation. I was thinking of using old rifle barrel material to get the bottom metal/extended tang made from ,so I would have to ask the company if this would be OK for colour case hardening. Scroll cutter said mild steel would be best ,so maybe old steel rifle barrels might not be a good idea?
Are there any books which give a lot of info on different coatings ,finishes, blues and engraving????????