This is going to be kind of a unusual question. In a pre-64 Mod. 70, chambered for the 30-03 (yes highly unusual), are there any problems related to a rifle as such that could render it dangerous? Besides the common problems, excessive headspace, gas blowby, etc. I was just given some information by a "highly qualified" gunsmith, without him knowing that I myself am a gunsmith as well, and I want to verify if the dude knows what he's talking about. With my failing health right now it's kind of hard to remember such things!

What is a 30-03? Is it half of an '06? What did you hear?

I have seen a few rifles chambered as such. From a collector's standpoint I have never seen them bring much more than a standard '06. I have often wondered if the '03 was the result of a worn out stamp or a mis-stamp at the factory. Did your gunsmith do a chambercast to make sure he knows what he's dealing with.

From a quick google:

The .30-03 was developed to replace the .30-40 Krag cartridge used in the Krag-Jørgensen rifle, which was the first bolt action rifle adopted by the US military, and the first that used smokeless powder. The Krag-Jørgensen rifle had some serious limitations compared to the new Mauser rifles being used by European armies; it was loaded one round at a time, rather than using a stripper clip, and the Krag-Jorgensen's single locking lug on the bolt made the action much weaker than the strong, two lug Mauser bolt, limiting the power of the round. A new rifle was designed, using the Mauser as a guide, and a new cartridge was designed for it. The new cartridge was more powerful, using a 45 grain (2.9 g) charge of smokeless powder, 5 grains (0.3 g) more than the .30-40. The bullet was the same, a .30 caliber, 220 grain (14 g) round nosed jacketed bullet, at a higher velocity of 2300 feet per second (700 m/s), compared to the 2000 feet per second (610 m/s) of the .30-40 Krag. The new rifle was also the first in a trend of shorter infantry rifles; the 24 in (610 mm) barrel was halfway between the standard rifle and the carbine used by the cavalry, and thus there was no carbine variant of the 1903 rifle. The .30-03 cartridge was also a rimless design, which allowed better feeding through the box magazine than the old .30-40 Krag case.


[edit] Problems
The 1903 rifle and the .30-03 cartridges suffered from a number of problems from the start. First, president Theodore Roosevelt disapproved of the model 1903 rifle's rod bayonet, calling it "... about as poor an invention as I ever saw." The sights were also an area of concern. The rod bayonet was switched to a knife type bayonet, and the sights were improved, yielding the "Model of 1905" rifle, which was never produced in any quantity.

The .30-03 cartridge also caused severe erosion of the bore of the rifle, due to the high pressures and temperatures needed to push the heavy bullet to the desired velocity. The heavy bullet was also an issue; the 220 grain (14 g) bullet was aerodynamically inefficient and had a very curved trajectory (see external ballistics) so it was not well suited for long range shots. It was also unfashionable, since most countries had switched to a 7 or 8 mm Mauser cartridge firing a lighter, around 150 grains (9.7 g), spitzer pointed bullet at a higher velocity. This gave better energy retention and a flatter trajectory. The .30-03 was shortened slightly (.07 inches in the neck), the powder was reformulated to burn cooler, and the bullet was changed to a 150 grain (9.7 g) spitzer bullet, creating the .30-06 cartrdige.

Since the new .30-06 was shorter than the .30-03, it could fire in 1903 rifle, but with poor accuracy. The 1903 rifles were all recalled, fitted with the Model of 1905 sights and bayonet, and rechambered for the new .30-06 cartridge. This last procedure was done by unscrewing the barrels, milling off the end of each chamber, re-threading the barrels, rechambering them and screwing them back on the same actions. This ended the short life of the .30-03; out of nearly 75,000 made, no more than a handful of original 1903 rifles escaped the conversion to .30-06 (estimates range from 50 to 100 rifles), becoming rare collectors items. Even the .30-03 cartrdige is a rarity, found only in collections of rare cartridges.

Take a 270 Winchester case, neck it up to 30 caliber and you can reload your 30-03.

Barstooler

It may be a 30-03 but I seriuosly doubt that Winchester made it that way. There were only 18 original chamberings in the M70, and 30-03 wasn't one of them. It's possible that it was special ordered in 03, but I doubt that also. I'm goin' with the worn out stamp/mis-stamp at the factory theory. Either that or somebody is trying to off another faked "rare chambering" M70. Do a chamber cast and see exactly what the chambering is. As far as any "problems" go, it's a Pre 64 M70, they all have their good points and and bad points.

Metalsmith.....the 30-03 became obsolete, (which I am sure you know), in 1906. Some 30 years before the Model 70 was born. And, of course, the first 70s in 30-06 were marked 30 govt 06. If you have one marked 30-03, it most certainly is a fake. Winchester had some Model 54 barrels which they used up on 70s. But even the Model 54 was too new to be offered in 30-03. Supposedly a few Model 95 lever actions were chambered, and marked, 30-03......... Grant.

I have seen and owned a number of 30-03s in the Mod. 95 Winchester, mostly carbines. I shot 30-06 ammo in all of them, as did several other family members and friends. They were mostly pretty accurate rifles. the neck was short and that supposedly caused erotion of the throat, but never did as far as I could tell, but only used them for hunting rifles. By the same token I used necked up .270 brass in the 30-06 back when stuff like that was scarce and money was hard to come by and never had a problem.

Lots of folks had Springfields in 30-03 back then and all shot 30-06 ammo in them as I recall.

craigster, Winchester made a bunch of different calibers besides the standard 18.

I could see someone ordering a 30/03 in a M70 although I have no idea why, but then again someone explain why someone would order a M70 target gun in 9X57?

quote:

Originally posted by reelman:
craigster, Winchester made a bunch of different calibers besides the standard 18.

I could see someone ordering a 30/03 in a M70 although I have no idea why, but then again someone explain why someone would order a M70 target gun in 9X57?

I know there were other chamberings than the "standard" 18. They were all special order. Why anyone would order a M70 in 30-03 or for that matter a 7.65x53 Mauser, is beyond me. Just to have something different, I guess.