Lets talk a little about Winchester M 70 base and ring mountings.

I have had this Winchester M 70 Heavy Varmint in 223 for a couple of years. But I had not gotten around to scoping it and shooting it. Mine is the older M70 HV with the HS stock and the stainless barrel. It has the 0.875 spaced scope mounting holes on top of the receiver. I think they are actually , or are referred to as 0.860 inch spacings.

Shortly after I had received it I ordered a set of Talley bases and rings for it. Really good looking stuff from Talley. Both the bases and rings are machined from steel and they are nicely finished too.

Yesterday Santa came early in The Big Brown Truck with a new Leupold VX3 8.5 x 25 for the M70 HV. I dug around in the back of the safe and got out the M70, and the scope mount tools, and retrieved the previously bought Talley bases and rings sets.

It has been a while since I had mounted a M70 scope as I previously have had mostly Sako's and Weatherby rifles.

Hmmmm . . . interestingly the bases are different heights. And all of the four scope screws are different lengths.

So I thought I will scratch around on AR as I am sure somebody had posted on this before. I have been here since 2000 . Has it been that long already ? Whew. There really wasnt anything on the mounts to read or to convince me that what I did was the recommended way.

What I did do was lay the mounts on the rifle and determine that the thinner height base goes to the front and the thicker to the rear. Ok.

And now to these screws of different lengths.

The Talleys have a higher "step" in them. So it made sense that the shortest screw went in the thinner part of the front base and in the hole that was not in the elevated step. And that the second shortest, or next longest screw went in the front base in the stepped recess. Following on that, the same in the rear with the 3rd screw in the base, and then finally the longest screw would fit in the rear in the stepped up position.

I test installed it that way , but without torquing the screws, with the higher recoil steps facing forward or toward the muzzle. That way I could check the scope position too before mounting everything solidly.

While all of that worked well, I noted too that the barrel threads are of course below the first threaded mounting hole. I tried swapping the screws but it didnt seem better. I thought for a minute that the shortest screw might have to go here. But that wasnt correct, so I stayed with the longer of the two inserted through the stepped portion of the base.

After a good look with the light, and feeling inside the action with my fingers for any screw protrusions and finding none, I decided it was right and the best way. I inserted the bolt back in the rifle and ran it a couple of times to see if there was any interference or binding. There was no binding or interference felt .

I then installed the rings to test fit them and get an initial pre-installation check on the scope positioning too. I loosened up the ring screws and inserted my Brownells 30mm Alignment Tips and checked to see how that scope might be sitting and if any lapping was going to required.

The alignment tips came within about a half of one micro millimeter of being absolutley perfect. Great !


I decided that this was going to very well more than close enough, and left the entire set up as configured right there . No lapping required. I sure didnt want to mess it up from here.

With some Vibra-Tite on the base screws, and all of that torqued up, and with the new Leupold mounted, it all looks rock solid. Now to go test some 69 grain loads through it when some of this rain goes away.

My further observations are that the Talleys are a top quality product and at least here deserve all the praise and recommendations that they get here on AR , and that Winchester did a good job on the receiver machining and threading on this rifle. There was no slop, and no shimming or lapping was required.

I posted the installation and set up to get any other ideas, recommendations, and suggestions from all the AR Winchester guys and gunsmiths here. Not only for me, but for the next guy with a M70 too.

Thanks.

It can be confusing sometimes. I put the long screw in the back of the rear base on a Savage 12-BV-SS just before leaving on a 900 mile trip to NE Montana for a Prairie Dog hunt. Dang bolt would not open. It cost me about half a day shooting by time I switched the screws (Kelbly bases) reattached the base, and rezeroed the scope.

Stuff happens...

I always put the screws in before I set them on and see how much pritrudes, if something looks goofy I switch them around until they all have about the same number of threads protruding. Worked so far.

Bax I tried that too before I set in to it. Good advice though.

IS - thanks. If you got it off some, then about any of us could.

As I have been re-shuffling to more Winchesters, and all of those will likely have the Talleys, I thought I would get any other tips before I got too far along .

Thanks guys.

I have lost count of the number of scope bases I have fitted to rifles over the years, whether to factory drilled and tapped actions or actions I have drilled and tapped myself. Without exception I have always degreased the actions and used an epoxy glue such as Araldite on both the bases and the screws. This prevents moisture getting under the bases and eliminates any question of bases working loose or screws shearing under heavy recoil.

In the event the bases need to be removed, application of heat to the bases and the screw heads will soften off the epoxy enough to undo the screws and crack off the bases.

The only thing I could comment on would be the front screw in the front base; it should not touch the barrel threads, it will affect accuracy, at least on a bench quality rifle.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
The only thing I could comment on would be the front screw in the front base; it should not touch the barrel threads, it will affect accuracy, at least on a bench quality rifle.

Jim

I was trying to " feel " that as I installed it. I didnt feel anything . I wasnt doing it for the reason you stated, just mostly because I did not want it to be high .

I did notice that when I purchased the other 2 set of Talleys for some other Winchesters that the spare screws they sent were all long so that I could grind them back to fit. I knew then there must be some variances to work out.

When installing the Talleys I see that they can mount in either direction. I put the "steps" forward just because it looked like a better fit and there was no overhang in or near the action opening. Plus the recoil movement is in that forward direction. The rifle is heavy and the scope is only medium heavy for that size so I hope it doesnt see much in a 223 . But it could be more of an issue on a light weight Magnum .

Do you have any input on that too ?

I have never used Loctite on the scope bases or screws except on one heavy bruiser . Have you or do you use the Vibra-Tite ?

I recently had changed scopes on one of the Sakos with the OptiLocks and I used Vibra-Tite on the screw holding the ring riser to the base in the Opti set up. That was after cleaning and degreasing the part and threads and screws. I dont know that I have ever had one loosen there, but it seems the weakest part and with it being from underneath there is no getting at it to check it.

Thank you for contributing Jim .

Thanks E27. If it doesnt hold, I will give that a go to . Down in your rugged country that indeed may be good set up.

I believe the "steps" you refer to are the recoil lugs that Talley builds into the bases; they should be Forward.

As for the front screw, tight it down just snug and then see if you can wiggle the base. If so, take a bit off the screw until it will allow the base to be tight.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Kobe:
I believe the "steps" you refer to are the recoil lugs that Talley builds into the bases; they should be Forward.

As for the front screw, tight it down just snug and then see if you can wiggle the base. If so, take a bit off the screw until it will allow the base to be tight.

Jim

Yes it is. But beings Talley talks about the "double recoil shoulder " I was trying to differentiate that . But after your input I am liking my mount better . As I said maybe it will help someone else too.

Real pros probably dont use Vibra- Tite or Loctite - unless they have to . I know most machinists and gunsmiths hate to see one come in stuck or broken off and full of Loctite . Get it right the first time boy LOL LOL .



Again I appreciate your time and professional inputs.

I have used Talleys for years and Gary Turner is a good personall friend of mine as is Dave, but Dave is retired now and Gary owns or is buying the company or something like that. You will never meet any finer folks.

It is the best ring/mount out there in most situations.

Mostly I use the QDs on my hunting rifles. I drill the big bores out to Torx 8/40 screws and I glass the base screws in..I have a small flame torch ( A chefs kitchen propane torch) to heat the screw slightly to remove them. I also shave the rear bases small recoil lug so a Talley Auxillary peep will slide on and then drill a half hole for the locking screw on the right hand slide..Talley will do this for you if you order direct and request it..You can also get extended bases both front and back in any persuasion needed to mount your scope properly. I have to use the extended front to mount the 2x7x33 Leupold scopes that I'm fond of, and the extension bases are good for any scope such as the 3X to keep the gold ring out from under the scope ring..

I like the peep as it sits pretty high and is the best answer to comb height that works for both scope and irons, combined with a nice barrel band front sight and a .500 NECG partridge gold faced post that can be filed to zero...great set up on a hunting rifle.

Thank you Ray.

I might look at that on my 416 .

When you glass the screws in do you use Marine Tex or that type of glass ?

Yes I was aware that Talley can and will set up some extended bases . But that is good to keep in mind .

I have so far ordered my sets straight from Talley . Great guys there at Talley. When I called to ask them about what to use they werent too busy to take the time to talk a minute and get it right.