After gathering info on gunsmith/hobby lathes both on AR and other places on the web, it appears that those in the $3k ball come in two flavors - used domestic and new Asian. Am I missing anything regarding the pros and cons of each?

New Asian import:

Pro - acceptable price point, factory support, accurate, not worn out or in need of rebuild, abundant, acceptable durability (for part time use), can be purchased as a ready-to-go kit, lower shipping costs

Con - UNPATRIOTIC, not made for lifelong use, startup bugs common, wide range of quality, cheap components

Used domestic:

Pro - Proud to be Made in the USA, solid machines built for a lifetime of service, can be found for excellent price, can be rebuilt, nostalgia (who doesn't love the image of some old guy, puffing on a pipe, bent over a lathe, turning a barrel to sporterize an old Springfield?), often come with tooling included

Con - widely varing conditions, obsolete (parts), heavy(shipping), require luck and effort to find unit in good shape for good price, rare that tooling is exactly what is wanted/needed

Mike, you forgot to list on the con side of both - Expensive to ship to Kodiak

I prefer used American made machines.

With experience you will know which import machines are worth dealing with and which ones to avoid. At your price point of $3K I'd look for a good used machine. I just picked up a very nice Takaswa 15X32 for $2500. Good machines are out there you just need to be patient

When I finally bought a lathe back in the 90's, I looked a lot and found a really nice 13" South Bend that had been rebuilt by a retired machinest and looked brand new. It is incredible to me how smoothly it runs (you can hardly hear it and you could almost balance an egg on it.) I love that you can turn it down really slow for threading. Two things now, however, have become a real limitation. It has a threaded spindle, so I can't really thread in reverse, and it would be an expensive pain to be able to thread metric. Be sure whatever you buy will do EVERYTHING you want.

As an aside, there were tons of really good lathes available in the 90's in the KY, OH, WV area at good prices. There really doesn't seem to be that good a supply anymore. With the economic downturn, I thought there would be more available, but I'm not seeing them. Good toolroom lathes seem to be almost a thing of the past.

I wish I could prefer a used American lathe, but I can't.

At least not since I became familiar with some of the used Canadian-made gear-driven,4D chuck mount, 1-5/8" spindle bore, gap-bed 14x42" lathes with .001" adjustable automatic way stops on both the main ways and the crossfeed. Equipped with an Aloris-type QC tool post, a good home-made spyder, and a Bison-brand Polish-made 4-jaw chuck, they are all I could ever want for a basic home-gunsmithing lathe. (Well, a nice long taper attachment and a tool post grinder would be nice too, but those can always come later...)

AC, what kind of lathe do you have?

Right now, since our move 18 months ago, I don't have ANY lathe...and no space to put one. That's the reason I vehemently didn't want to move here. Had to sell my lathe, my mill, even my 50 year old work bench with the built-in woodworker's vice.

My wife was dead-set on moving into a condo for some reason I simply can't fathom. Frankly I think it was resentment of my 20 years of retirement before she retired. But then, I'm 20 years older than she...I earned that retirement and I'll probably be dead 20 years before her.

At least we didn't end up in a condo, because I flat refused to do that. But we did end up in a scrinchy little house not much bigger than my workshop was. She can't understand why I want more space...she doesn't "get it" that just owning my guns wasn't my primary avocation. Building them was.

Well, enough of that rant. Now I am thinking of looking for another house, another lathe, and if need be, another living arrangement.

I think you need get you priorities straight.

Your search should go like this
Look for a new wife
look for a new place
look for new machines and never get put in that position again

My garage as ruined one marriage and sent a girlfriend of five years and the mother of my daughter running. They don't get and never will. I make a good amount of money on the side and I'm not about to give that up for anyone because with this economy i'll never be unemployed

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Mike, you forgot to list on the con side of both - Expensive to ship to Kodiak

Yep. Frieght costs to Kodiak can be pretty rough. The distance also makes it rather expensive to "take a look" at used units.

This looks like a real honey and just the setup I'd be PROUD to own. Comes with lots of accessories but is listed for a premium price and shipping would add another $2500...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISA...em&item=300672201792

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
I think you need get you priorities straight.

Your search should go like this
Look for a new wife
look for a new place
look for new machines and never get put in that position again

The only place I can disagree with you KC, is the first recommendation...to "look for a new wife". If I ever escape this one with any assets intact, my Priority Number 1 will be..."Stay completely away from entangling relationships of any kind with ANY woman".

Single men may not live as long, but at least they live (for however long that may be), not simply exist as a servant.

Two separate but equal ways to avoid divorce and loosing everything
Two word each
Icy road
and
Hunting accident
You figure it out.

To be clear that above recommendations were purely for AC's and my amusement.

I guess I can say I learned with the first wife. I'll never get married again.

What the hell happened to Cave Creak???

Thats the Machine tool paradox. You need tooling to use the machine. and tooling cost more then the machine but not all at once.

Tooling will nickel and dime you to death if you let it.

But it feels damn good when you can walk into your shop and do something that would cost you $75 and hour anywhere else

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
Right now, since our move 18 months ago, I don't have ANY lathe...and no space to put one. That's the reason I vehemently didn't want to move here. Had to sell my lathe, my mill, even my 50 year old work bench with the built-in woodworker's vice.

There are a number of small light-industrial shops here, mostly rent for about 50 cents a square foot. I've partnered with others off and on for shop space over the last ten years, now have a garage/shop built. I've kept my lathe and mill in storage when there wasn't a shop available, now have them in the garage and running again. No more moves for me, if I can possibly avoid it.

Oh, the original question. I got a South Bend Heavy Ten at an estate auction when we lived in Connecticut, and I'm happy with it. That was followed up with a Burke #4 mill, and that's enough shop for most of what I do. One of my friends has a Central Machine drill/mill, and it's not bad. You can get good work out of it with a little attention to detail.

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:

But it feels damn good when you can walk into your shop and do something that would cost you $75 and hour anywhere else

You've nailed the heart of the matter!



South Bend Heavy 10's seem to float to the surface of most of these discussions. Trouble is, again, pre-purchase inspection and shipping. Looks like Kodiak is home for a few more years so a cheap import might work in the meantime with the idea of leaving it behind when/if I leave. Got lots of time to keep looking however...

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
What the hell happened to Cave Creak???

Not sure I unerstand the question, KC...

Cave Creek is where we are NOW, in the scrinchy little house. Roseburg, Oregon is where we were before, on 5 acres fenced and cross-fenced with 5-ft. high chain link, naturally irrigated , right on the North Umpqua River (Zane Grey's favourite trout/salmon river)...where we had a roughly 3,000 sq. ft. house built on a hillside, with a 1,600 sq. ft. workshop in the walk-out daylight basement, a nice barn with turn-outs, wash rack, etc., a regulation dressage-size riding arena, our own 50 GPM wells, a small orchard, 4-vehicle attached, covered parking, and lots of other stuff...such as deer, elk, turkey, and quail in my front yard each morning...all on a paved road 17 miles from downtown.

Well I though you lived in cave creak then moved off from there.

So again why did you give all that up? Man i wouldn't leave kickin and screamin. it would have to be at gun point.

AC
Please take this with a grain of salt. All of us can say what "We would do" in a situation like this. But in reality we are not in that situation.

I am single and only have ties to the town I live in because that is where the mother of my daughter lives.
I can't say I've been in your situation as I don't know the full story nor is it any of my business. But lets just say that in my short nine year marriage i had I did a lot of stupid things to make her happy.
I sold a gun to make a car payment that she couldn't make because she bought something she could not afford. All the while I was driving a 1965 C20 pickup with an inline Six that had a new and completely different repair needed each and every week if not sooner. Gave up my Dirt bike that was paid off and keeping me thin and in good shape. Didn't cost much to run and I could ride near by so it wasn't a huge expense.
Lets see Oh engraved her initials in the bow of a trigger guard on a rifle I was rebuilding for her. I welded that crap up and polished it out after she left. Not to mention the hundreds of other dumb things I did just to make that woman happy. Boy was I a schmuck

Nope I'll die alone and don't give a damn about it. I'll never be a slave to a woman again

quote:

Now if I was in the market for another woman I would go look for something like Liz the gator hunter in Swamp People. 'Specially after seeing her pull that 13'-6" gator into her boat and top it off by going into the water after a 12 footer. Real women down in those LA swamps!

Uh-huh.....and if ya pizzed-off ol' Liz, she could also
shoot ya twixt the eyes and throw yer body in the
swamp for 'gator bait!
"Choot, Lizabeth, choot!!"
"If'n you call me Elizabeth one more time....!"

This one is in the price range, if it is large
enough for your needs:
http://www.grizzly.com/product...he-with-Stand/G4003G
Anyone have experience with the Grizzly lathe
products?

If it floats, fly's, or f%#*s RENT it
and Tit's tires or tracks it's going to give you problems.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
What the hell happened to Cave Creak???

Not sure I unerstand the question, KC...

Cave Creek is where we are NOW, in the scrinchy little house. Roseburg, Oregon is where we were before, on 5 acres fenced and cross-fenced with 5-ft. high chain link, naturally irrigated , right on the North Umpqua River (Zane Grey's favourite trout/salmon river)...where we had a roughly 3,000 sq. ft. house built on a hillside, with a 1,600 sq. ft. workshop in the walk-out daylight basement, a nice barn with turn-outs, wash rack, etc., a regulation dressage-size riding arena, our own 50 GPM wells, a small orchard, 4-vehicle attached, covered parking, and lots of other stuff...such as deer, elk, turkey, and quail in my front yard each morning...all on a paved road 17 miles from downtown.

man, i REALLY REALLY feel ur pain! lived in the damn desert all my life and now for the last 10 years now live on a river w/a pontoon boat, a few acres, wildlife, good hunting, no close neighbors, etc etc. and NOW my wife of 40 years wants to move 2 hours away to the the friggin liberal capitol of the world, austin tx. to be near a grandchild that will in a few years be old enough to love coming out here to go fishing and i hope hunting. told the old lady if she wants to move i will get a part time job when i retire to set her up in an apt. in austin but I AIN'T LEAVING. flat out. she finally gave up and quit talking bout it cause she knows i mean it. MY shop is only 600 sq. ft., but its MINE. but seriously, i feel for ya!

quote:

Originally posted by kcstott:
Well I though you lived in cave creak then moved off from there.

So again why did you give all that up? Man i wouldn't leave kickin and screamin. it would have to be at gun point.

I HAD to give it up. I made the mistake initially of putting her name on the title with mine, so if either of us died the other wouldn't have to go through probate. We lived there 21 years and I loved every minute of it. She never did make friends in the area, probably because she refers to ALL Americans as stupid and ignorant. I mean, she has lived in the U.S. 30 years this year, and is still on a green card...flat refuses to even consider U.S. citizenship. (Matter of fact, she went down yesterday to renew her Canadian passport.)

And in 42 years of being together, we have had maybe three couples over for dinner...once each...all of whom were her close relatives. In the last 23 years, we have had exactly 0 people over, and have never been to dinner or to socialize at anyone else's place either.

I don't know how many good friends I have lost because she wouldn't allow them to sleep over even one night at our place after they had driven 1,000 or more miles to see me. And I was the one who had to try to tell them that without flat insulting them...which of course is impossible, hard as one might try.

Anyway, as her name was on the title, she gave me the choice, either come with her to the Scottsdale/Cave Creek area, or cash her out.

Hell man, I'm a disabled vet with a small monthly VA disability stipend, and a very small social security check. I'm too disabled and too old to be able to work for someone else anymore, though I WAS able to do a little gunsmithing on my own with my machine tools. I couldn't cash out a church mouse!

So, either way I was going to lose the place I wanted to live, die, and be buried on. ...either selling it and moving with her, or selling it and moving out into the street with less than half our assets.


I would have just preferred the street, if she hadn't agreed that when we got here we would find a one or two acre place with a big workshop and buy IT.

But she lied. When we got here, she wanted to buy a condo. I wouldn't, and we looked at over 100 places, several of them very nice, one with a 40x40 shop and a beautiful single-level 3,050 foot home on 2 acres in north Scottsdale, for almost $50,000 less than we sold our Oregon place for.

Turns out she wants to use a big chunk of her half of the money to buy another damned dressage horse with.

Well, the saga isn't going to keep going this way forever; my patience has just about played out. Even if I have to live in a run down shack somewhere on the wrong side of the tracks....

live on the wrong side of the tracks in a shack and die of old age a free and happy man.

Sorry to read about all the hardship...

Back on topic, it does sound like it's worth the time and effort to find a used domestic unit. Imports in my price range seem to be rather hit or miss.

PWS - Please accept my apology for cluttering your thread with my personal stuff. I am just so embittered right now I have trouble concentrating on what I SHOULD.

Personally, I would reccomend several things regardless what kind of lathe you get, domestic or import.

1. Make sure it is a gear drive, not belt drive.

2. Make sure it has at least a 1-1/2" hole through the headstock.

3. If you can, get one with a D-4 cam-type chuck-mounting plate, not a thread-on one.

4. If you have a choice, get one with a 4-jaw chuck. You can do fine without a three jaw chuck, but for really well-centered, concentric, final results you will need a chuck which is fully adjustable to dead center your work, such as a 4-jaw.

5. Make sure it has a lowest RPM speed of somewhere between 50 and 90 RPM, NO FASTER (the slower the better).

When you set it up at your place, be sure to level it both ways, end to end, and side to side. I prefer to use aftermarket bolt -adjustable leveling blocks to set it on, but what you use is not as important as making sure it IS level.

Good luck in your search and purchase.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
I HAD to give it up. I made the mistake initially of putting her name on the title with mine, so if either of us died the other wouldn't have to go through probate. We lived there 21 years and I loved every minute of it. She never did make friends in the area, probably because she refers to ALL Americans as stupid and ignorant. I mean, she has lived in the U.S. 30 years this year, and is still on a green card...flat refuses to even consider U.S. citizenship. (Matter of fact, she went down yesterday to renew her Canadian passport.)

Sounds like a rough row to hoe. Two of my friends are married to Canadian girls and while they are otherwise nice, they won't have guns in the house.

What about collets? I don't have a lot of experience (and haven't used the 4-jaw chuck much), but have used collets now and then to avoid the (small) runout in the 3-jaw chuck.

I'm married to a Canadian as well but my wife knew well before we got married not to mess with my hunting or guns unless she wanted to hit the door. She hadn't really been around guns before we met and now she shoots occasionally and has gone hunting with me.

I feel for you Alberta Canuck. I love my wife but would never let her change who I am to stay with her. I'd rather be broke and happy then have a nice house somewhere I don't want to live and be miserable. You have unenviable decisions to make.

quote:

Originally posted by TomP:
What about collets? I don't have a lot of experience (and haven't used the 4-jaw chuck much), but have used collets now and then to avoid the (small) runout in the 3-jaw chuck.

The collets themselves may BE concentric to less than .001", or even the 3-jaw chuck may be. The problem is, the bore may not be in a blank which is turned concentric to the bore on the outside. So when you put the blank in the concentric chuck or collet the bore still won't be in the exact middle.

So, you still need to be able to adjust the chuck so that the work turns concentric on the dead center of the bore if you are chambering or threading a barrel.

With a 4-jaw chuck you have that ability. With a 3-jaw chuck or collet, you normally don't.

I always used a .0001" dial indicator when centering the bore in the 4-jaw chuck and spider on barrel work I was doing through the headstock, and didn't find it any great feat to get close to that level of concentricity before starting to cut chambers and threads. That may not be crucial to accurate shooting, but it sure doesn't hurt any.

If you can find one the size that works for your lathe. A four jaw scroll chuck is a beautifull thing. I have a 10" Rohm on my 14.5 lathe and have never put the three jaw on in five years.
Once you get used to using a key front and back at the same time, it beats a three jaw adjustable all to pieces. Kenny