Sorry,

I'm trying to catch up on charts, and need some diversion. Here is a list of the twenty separate types of Mauser Sporter Actions that Stoeger used to import into the US. This list is from Stoeger, not Mauser. Those numbers with a * came with an inside the trigger guard button release for the floorplate and a square bridge. The others came with a quarter turn lever floorplate release and a rounded bridge:

1. 6.5x68
2. 7x57
3. 8x57
4. 8x60
5. 9x57
6. 6.5x54
7. 8x51
8. .250-3000 Savage
9. 7x64
10. 8x64
11. 9.3x62
12.* 30-06
13. 10.75x68
14. 8x75
15.* .280 Ross
16.* .318 Westley Richards
17.* .350 Rigby
18.* .375 Holland & Holland
19.* .404 Nitro-Express (Jeffery)
20.* .416 Rigby

The above per Ludwig Olson as a sidebar in an article entitled "Mauser 98 Actions" in Rifle # 154, July - August 1994

My 1939 Stoeger catalog confirms Olsen's list of calibers and those that have the trigger-guard floorplate release. Many of the the differences between the various models were changes in the feed rails, extractor and bolt face -- besides the receiver length -- to accommodate the particular cartridge. They also offered an optional side safety, set triggers and a pop-up receiver peep sight.

Bud W

quote:

and a pop-up receiver peep sight.

gotta pic?

sounds cool.

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
1. 6.5x68
2. 7x57
3. 8x57
4. 8x60
5. 9x57
6. 6.5x54
7. 8x51
8. .250-3000 Savage
9. 7x64
10. 8x64
11. 9.3x62
12.* 30-06
13. 10.75x68
14. 8x75
15.* .280 Ross
16.* .318 Westley Richards
17.* .350 Rigby
18.* .375 Holland & Holland
19.* .404 Nitro-Express (Jeffery)
20.* .416 Rigby

Mr Olson (or Stoeger) should have been a bit more exact, and listed their "8" mm calibers with the appropriate "S" designation - indicating the .323 bore. E.g.:
3. 8x57IS
4. 8x60S
10. 8x64S

(At least I assume, that Stoeger won't have been importing the .318 bore 8mm calibers??).

The cartridge listed as "8x75" is a bit of an enigma... Off the top of my head, I'm only aware of an 8x75R(S) cartridge. But why anybody would attempt to chamber a rimmed cartridge in a Mauser action is a bit of a mystery to me?? But perhaps somebody can set the record straight here??

- mike

P.S. My RWS manual actually indicates there was a rimless 8x75(S) cartridge available before the 2nd WW.

The popup peep sight was not a receiver sight. It was inletted into the top of the grip behind the tang. Known as the (not sure of the spelling) Baille-Grohman sight. Also, Mauser actions were made by the factory with slant magazine box for the rimmed .400-.350 and/or .350 Rigby No. 2 cartriges - same case, different bullet weight. Fraser offered Mausers in .303 British but I do not know if these were Oberndorf original actions for that calibre or adapted by Fraser.

did a search for the hell of it-

William Adolph Baillie Grohman, (1851 - 1921) Anglo-Austrian author, big game sportsman and Kootenay pioneer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Adolf_Baillie_Grohmann

never heard of the guy, couldn't find a pic of the sight.

Vigillinus-
Are you sure that was a .303 Brit that Fraser chambered in Mausers?? I have a Fraser T/D on a Mauser action and its chambered for .303 Fraser- a standard Mauser rimless case (7/8/9x57) necked for .303 bullets.

TC - I'll try to shoot a pix from the catalog. I called it a receiver sight because it was near the eye and not on the barrel. It was like a Marble tang sight but linked to the bolt plug so it rose up when in battery and was horizontal when the bolt was pulled back. In addition to the list you have, the Mauser was available in 6.5x51 (5.5mm K)
and 8x51 (8mm K). Mauser also made receivers for John Rigby & Co and for W.J. Jeffrey & co. Calibers for the latter included the .333 Jeffrey and the .375 Magnum, both rimmed.

Bud W

I saw something similar to that on a Mannlicher-Schoenauer, it worked off the bolt release, maybe. anyway, it swung to the left/returned as the bolt was worked.

looking at old catalogs can make me ill- I remember when I was kid "American Rifleman" had ads for Lugers with mis-matched magazines for $29.95...

quote:

Mr Olson (or Stoeger) should have been a bit more exact, and listed their "8" mm calibers with the appropriate "S" designation - indicating the .323 bore. E.g.:
3. 8x57IS
4. 8x60S
10. 8x64S

(At least I assume, that Stoeger won't have been importing the .318 bore 8mm calibers??).

I believe Stoeger only imported 8mm rifles in the .323" variety.

The boxes of RWS ammunition that I have seen were all very specific with their "J", "R", "S" and other letter designations.

A10ACN, you may be right ... I always assumed they were .303 British. Tin Can, the swingarm Mannlicher sight is a fairly common Lyman, I think the no. 36.

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:

The boxes of RWS ammunition that I have seen were all very specific with their "J", "R", "S" and other letter designations.

I guess I'm trying to spread the "gospel" at least to our esteemed forum members - who as certified rifle nuts and experts really should know the "proper" way of designating 8mm cartridges. As much as I hate the "system" the Germans introduced for their two 8mm bore sizes, we have to live with it the way it is. Given that, an 8mm cartridge in the metric nomencalture should be designated "S" or no-S. For Joe Average, this is probably more than what can be expected, but from you experts, I can expect better...

Btw, one thing has always baffled me. Why does the 8x57I(S) sometimes come with a designation "J" as opposed to the "I"?? Apparently there is no difference, but I have never been able to figure out why the J is sometimes used?? I have been told (true or not?), that the "I" stands for "Infanterie" - i.e. military cartridge - but even the Germans know the difference between an I" and a "J"??
- mike

Hey Mike!

If I'm not mistaken, although I'll be happy to be better informed by our Mauser Experts who are more knowledgeable regarding these nuances. The "J" was never supposed to be a "J" but rather the German written cursive "I" (as you've stated - "Infantrie") which in their written style apears to be (you tell me what's it's called....?) a sorta frontwards "Tail" (?) at the beginning of the letter "I" which could be interpreted in cursive writing as a "J".

My expereince with current RWS ammunition and the one 8X75R(S) cartridge I've got in my collection is that the color Black is supposed to designate a .323" bullet loading so as not to be confused with a .318" bullet load. The RWS amunition I've got has a black ring around the primer and the 8x75R(S) cartridge's primer is completely blackened.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerry:
Hey Mike!

If I'm not mistaken, although I'll be happy to be better informed by our Mauser Experts who are more knowledgeable regarding these nuances. The "J" was never supposed to be a "J" but rather the German written cursive "I" (as you've stated - "Infantrie") which in their written style apears to be (you tell me what's it's called....?) a sorta frontwards "Tail" (?) at the beginning of the letter "I" which could be interpreted in cursive writing as a "J".

My expereince with current RWS ammunition and the one 8X75R(S) cartridge I've got in my collection is that the color Black is supposed to designate a .323" bullet loading so as not to be confused with a .318" bullet load. The RWS amunition I've got has a black ring around the primer and the 8x75R(S) cartridge's primer is completely blackened.

Yo Gerry,

I believe all 8mm "S" (i.e. .323 bore) factory ammo manufactured in Europe comes with a coloured primer. RWS, as you correctly note, use black, S&B use red, etc. I don't believe 8mm S ammo manufactured outside of Europe adheres to this rule - but at least we are trying to impress on all AR members to use the "S" designation standard...

You may well be right about the "J" being a different "font" for "I". Apart from head stamps, I have always seen the cartridge referred to as 8x57I(S).

- mike

quote:

Originally posted by A10ACN:
Vigillinus-
Are you sure that was a .303 Brit that Fraser chambered in Mausers?? I have a Fraser T/D on a Mauser action and its chambered for .303 Fraser- a standard Mauser rimless case (7/8/9x57) necked for .303 bullets.

A friend has a Wesley Richards Mauser chambered in 303 British

Lawndart

HOpe your doing better.

All I can say is that I wish Stoeger imported all of those very same actions today and sold them for the same price they sold them for back then.

In speed's book serial number (Mauser commercial)
61, 68 and 126 are listed as 303 British.

Too spice things up a bid don't forget the left hand Mausers. Anyone ever see one?

I believe that J and I were somewhat interchangeable in old German, I don’t believe that the letter “J†was in common use at that time. I believe that “J’ was a alternative for “I†but don’t remember why. I have a least one or two German gun books written in “old†German and they are completely beyond my comprehension. Hopefully someone who has knowledge in old & new will come along and straighten me out.