I want to try my hand at checkeing. I want to order up some tools but need input as to which and what lpi to get.

From what I gleaned from Monty Kennedy's book, 22 lpi seems a good choice even for a beginner. What about the tools? Brownells has two kits that seem to have most of the bits, six in all. Any reason why the Dem-Bart kit would be preferred over the Gunline, or vice versa? Also, any additional tools that one should get to finish out the set?

Thanks,

Mike

The lpi depends first on the wood.Soft wood will not support fine checkering.It also depends on what the checkering is for, practical ,for gripping 20-22 is fine . For show on fine grained wood you might go as fine as 30 lpi.Patience is a good thing ,stop when you're tired. For rifle stocks a cradle is a good idea along with good lighting.

If you don't mind, I'll sneak in a checkering question of my own in here since it relates. I have a number of older rifles and shotguns where the checkering has flattened diamonds, scratches, etc. Can I just buy a straight line, single cutter to repoint flat diamonds, straighten lines and recut straight border lines without worrying what LPI each gun has?

IMHO I think that 20 lines to the inch is a better starting point for a beginner. While checkering does take time to achieve good results I will tell you that layout is the hardest to execute. Focus on that just as much.

-Mike

Alvinmack,

I'd have to agree. I meant 20 but wrote 22. Thanks for the encouragement!

-Mike

Fjold
That is the normal way of pointing up any checkering pattern. Make sure you buy a quality single line checkering tool. I use Doirons carbide cutters. They make one cutter that is about 3/4" long. It keeps your lines nice and straight.

Even though the pros usually cut 22-24 lpi, 20 lines per inch is still considered fairly fine checkering. That's what I'm using on my 458 stock right now and it looks just fine. (Pun intended)

Thanks Scrollcutter!

Thx too. It's nice to have a whole staff of experts around to get answers from.

I only do 22 LPI and I muller my borders ala English rifles for the most part....mainly because thats what my tools are.

Sometimes I think we overlook the fact that checkering is function rather than art on a hunting rifle and perhaps a little coarser is better function..

I always liked the feel of the very corse 12, 14 or whatever, LPI and deep checkering on the cheaper grades of Cogswell and Harrisons big bores..you really knew you had something in your hand...

If I were learning to checker today then I would start out with one of the power checkering tools.. I still have a fear of them, all that noise, and chips and dust screaming all over the place just chills me...but when perfected it does not take 30 hours or more to do a stock as it does me.

I would comment on this strand but after watching your signature video I forgot what it was about

Hint...........turn the single cutting head around so it cuts on the pull. That way you won't mess up the borders so much.

Ray

It takes me about 60 hours to do a three panel checkering job. That's with an electric checkering tool.

Of course, it takes longer when the checkering lines are straight.

The reality is that I don't do enough checkering to

a: be fast at it.

b: be good at it.

Roger,

Im going to show my ingnorance here I bet but what the hell. I would assume that an engraver such as yourself who can do the exceptional work you do would find checkering a breeze. I have never engraved anything....what am I missing here.....the work you do is on a much smaller scale and if Im not mistaken, done under a microscope.

Bill,

I am not a very competent checkerer. Metal doesn't have the grain to it that wood has. So that eliminates that particular wobble.

By the way, Chic had some rather uncomplimentary comments about my checkering cradle.

Bill, I will tell you something, his checkering is as good as his cradle is bad. And it is really bad.

The stock I saw was flawless. Lines were perfectly straight, no overuns, spaces were identical. It does not get any better.

He's just being nice, but thanks for the compliment Chic.

Roger,

lol - he can be a caustic individual!

I figured your checkering was top notch and after seeing Chic's comments I am not surprised.

One last question before I order up the tools. When it comes to the Jointer should I get a 60 begree or 90 degree?

z1r

I don't use a jointer so I am guessing, but I would get the 60 degree tool. Once the bottom of the line is straightened out you can come back in and hit the tops with your 75 or 90 degree cutter which ever you are using.

That's what I was thinking too Roger. Thanks. It never hurts to get a second opinion. Too bad Brownells order desk is closed now. Shucks, looks like I'll have to wait another day before I ruin a perfectly good stock, lol.

That's funny. I'm sure you'll do just fine.

Go slow.

z1r,



Im just beginning to checker as well. I opted for the 20 lpi dem-bart starter set. I was going to get a jointer too but so far Ive found that the #3 and #4 tools do a great job for keeping your lines straight. I also ended up getting a couple extra handles for the other cutters that come with the kit. They dont remove and interchange as easily as the adds make out.



I also got a pounce wheel and want to make some of my own patterns but havent done much with that yet. Just some ideas. I just managed to do my first un-botched sampling, next Im going to try some rather simple checkering on some old millsurp stocks. Im quite happy with the 20 lpi tools, but I would reccomend getting some extra handles for the other cutters and add a #3 to the kit so you have both right and left cutters.



G'luck and have fun!

Wstrnhuntr,

Thanks for the feedback. I had about decided on the Dem-Bart set but then decided maybe the Gunline would be nice since it has the rule and gage and some patterns. Gotta decide by morning. Head is buried in Brownells catalog. At least I do know that 20 lines is what I want.

Does everyone (Italians, etc) use the LPI measurement for checkering or do some use metric measurements? I have a mix of Americam rifles and Italian shotguns that need touching up so do I have to buy some metric spaced cutters?

I'm italian and I use lpi. :-)

Serioulsy, I am currently trying to learn this as well, and although many mistakes get made I did end up the other day with a good 3/8" spot of perfect diamonds, which really excited me. Chic was invaluable and with his direction I started with 20lpi tools, got the brownells open view handles, a jointer, a veiner (I think that's what the sharp v thing is called). Day before yesterday I got ahold of W.E. Brownells out of San Diego and ordered some cutters from them, if they turn out as good as they are supposed to be I will go with them from now on, as the guy that I spoke to was so helpful and friendly and I like doing business with people like that.

I also just ordered a set of those mark on anything pencils from brownells, as layout is difficult for me, and a punch wheel. what I decided is I am going to scan the patterns in the books into my computer, rather than trying to trace them, then print out, put on the stock and pounce wheel them down. I'll see how that works out.

Red

Red,

Would you mind either posting W.E. Brownells contact info or emailing it to me? I would like to get some cutters from them as well. Thanks!

bsoverns@msn.com

Bill,

Here is an address I have. It's old, but might work. These Brownell checkering cutters are the best I have ever used. After they sold out getting the cutters was kind of spotty so I switched over to Doiron carbide cutters. The Doiron cutters work well and last a lot longer, but I still prefer the Brownell cutters. Hopefully, they have gotten their act together. Let me know what you find out.

W.E. Brownell Checkering Tools
9390 Twin Mountain Circle
San Diego, CA 92126
(619) 695-2479

You guys that are having trouble with the layout might try doing all of the layout work you can before you finish the stock. You can lay out the borders with soft pencil and if you don't like it you can erase or even sand if need be. Also cut your master lines at the same time. You will get finish in your lines, but just go over them with your cutter after you are done with the finishing. I also like the effect of sanding over the lines during the filling phase of the finishing process. It sort of rounds the lines over a bit and gives the finished checkering job a depth that it wouldn't have other wise. Your borders will still be nice and crisp though because you will have cut them deeper.

One more thing. I don't know what you think of Balickie, but his tape on checkering would be very helpfull to a budding gun stock checkererererer. It's a bit spendy, but it would be money well spent.

Where is the tape available?

Phone number is not in service and San Diego directory assistance has no listing.....guess I will have to wait for Red....but thanks Roger! Much appreciated.

Bill,

The phone number for W.E. Brownell has changed. I have it at home and will try to get it posted tonight. Their cutters are the best available, far and away, in my opinion. And they are easy to sharpen, and you can get them so sharp that one can shave slivers of wood up rather than filing up dust.



Best to you.

I too have it at home but will gladly post it when I get back there tonight. I had to leave a message when I called, but he responded promptly. is sending me the cutters, and since they sell the #4 swiss file for sharpening them at cost I had him send that as well. he is also sending latest price sheet and item list. he told me that any of the tools I don't use I can send back for refund or exchange (when he found out I was a beginner and I didn't know for sure which things I would use the most he made sure to tell me this a couple of times).

He did mention that one reason their cutters work so well is they are very hard, so don't push down too forcefully or go dropping them onto the shop floor as they can break a tooth off type thing. I said fine by me as I try to treat things fairly well (I didn't mention that anything that required too much elbow grease falls into "chores" rather than "hobbies" so there was no chance of me pushing down too hard). :-)

I like the idea of trying the layout before the finishing. I plan on after a couple of more stocks worth of messing with this replacing the stocks that I have destroyed with higher quality blanks. Waiting on it for now because Chic made it sound easy to make a pattern stock and then duplicate and fit new one to gun, and anything he makes sound easy in my experience is a PITA! :-)

Red

The number for W.E. Brownell is 858-695-2479. It was a simple area code change and I believe the mailing address remains correct.

Dago, on the #4 Swiss files for sharpening, how expensive are these and do they wear out fast like the ones Brownell's in Iowa used to offer? You can use one of those diamond impregnated hones on the little red handles rather than the files for sharpening. Grind off a bit of the backing of the segment so that you can reach down into the slots that make the teeth. You can get those for about $5.00 or less just about anywhere and they don't wear out very fast. One will last a near lifetime.

Best to you.

Thanks Toby and Red. I will get some ordered up asap.

Here is the number that I used for W.E. Brownell 858-695-2479. Like I said, the guy was real friendly and helpful. found out I was a beginner and is sending a guide to checkering that they have as well.



Red



Sorry, didn't see that Toby beat me to it. To answer your question the file was just over $7 I think.