I hope someone can tell me how real this "danger" is.

I read on a top notch barrel makers' web page that stainless steel barrels should be avoided in very cold conditions. I understand they loose strength through becoming brittle.

Now, I can understand this if we 're discussing cryogenics and similar industrial applications but hunting conditions?

I appreciate extreme cold weather conditions are, in fact, quite 'dry' because the moisture has been 'squeezed' out of the air, but stainless steel firearms were developed for places like Alaska / Canada were n't they??

Well I have no idea what this could be about. I have fired my SS 25'06 in as cold as -35C and have never had any bad incicents. I also have never heard of a SS barrel failing in any of the temps we encounter North of the 49th.
Perhaps they are talking very extreme conditions like -60 or colder, good luck doing much hunting in those temps.
I think this idea was started by the same fellow who said fiberglass and composite stocks will shatter in extreme cold, well I have never seen it and heck i've seen my fair share of -45 and even some -50, and never ever had any problems due to material failure.

It had me thinking too, along similar lines.

I have heard of car industry problems with plastics and extreme cold.

Back when the car industry was reducing the amount of steel in car body work, "plastic" bumpers, or should that be fenders?, became brittle and shattered in very cold conditions. I think the cars were tested on a frozen lake in Sweden or Finland.

But that was like thirty or more years ago. And with plastic not stainless steel.

I have personally hunted in -50F, so it does apply. I can't remeber the details, but when I was in engineering rgaduate school and studying materials, I can remeber how it did apply to cold weatehr and rifles in real world situations. I can remeber 416 SS as being not too well suited to extreme cold weather useage.

I am assuming you are talking about Krieger. I ahve spoken to them on the phone about it a couple fo times. THey are adamant about their SS bbls not being too thin and not being used in extreme cold weather. I hav eno idea of the stress calculations they have run on the different geometries of barrels they make, as well as the different ocnditions they use for their calculations. And what safety factor they use, I have no idea. But yes, there is a real chance for danger. THis gets exponentially worse as bbls get thinner and fluted.

One thing to keep in mind is that there are few lunatics who will actually spend 13 hours a day in -30F weather for days on end. Most folks have enough sense to stay inside when spit freezes within 12" after leaving your lips. Plus I am 5' 10" tall and weigh 140# (ie-no body fat). DO you have any idea how many clothes I have to wear in that kind of weather?

While most steels do become more brittle in cold temperatures,stainless does not weaken to the point of becoming dangerous in normal use.I work in an oilsands plant where temperatures do fall to -40 every winter and occaisionally -50 and colder,yet we do use a great deal of stainless alloys in applications of high pressure and shock loads.We do not have problems with the stainless failing at these cold temperatures.
As to stainless barrel on rifles,I have fired my own stainless rifles at temperatures well below -30 with no ill effects.
Have you ever seen the makers of the stainless rifles give warnings about their use in cold temperatures?In these days of liability suits you would think that they would issue warnings if they thought that there was any danger present.

www.crucibleservice.com mentions that their 416R barrels are suitable down to -40F which is the same as -40C.

When there's an earthquake (the Sako debacle) there will be a tidal wave (of emotion and talk)
When the waters subside there will be ration and reason again...until then I'm keeping my stainless guns.

Well said, I have had both stainless and chrome-moly barrels for decades, I hunt in fairly cold temps. at times and none of my rifles has blown up, yet.

quote:

---

When there's an earthquake (the Sako debacle) there will be a tidal wave (of emotion and talk)
When the waters subside there will be ration and reason again...until then I'm keeping my stainless guns.

---

Very well said.

I'm pretty sure that I'm going to shatter in freezing weather before my rifle does......DJ

Damn right they're dangerous.

Heed my warning!

When it's 20 below or colder, DO NOT LICK THE BARREL.

Elmo

As far as I know, the point was never made that a barrel would fail every time it was used at cold temps. Several things at work here. One, VERY FEW people are actually out there when it is -40. ANd when they are, they often are not there long enough for the core temp of the steel to reach -40. Again, very few people are actually out in these conditions. And even if this happens, it does not mean immenent failure. What you are concerend about here is failure rate. Not every barrel has to fail for there to be an issue. Also, as I stated earlier, barrel geometry is VERY Important in this discussion. A contour that reduces stress risers and plenty of meat in th ebarrel obviously make it stronger, which is even more important when extreme cold is involved. Of course, ammo pressure is also a key part of the equation as well

quote:

---

As far as I know, the point was never made that a barrel would fail every time it was used at cold temps. Several things at work here. One, VERY FEW people are actually out there when it is -40. ANd when they are, they often are not there long enough for the core temp of the steel to reach -40. Again, very few people are actually out in these conditions. And even if this happens, it does not mean immenent failure. What you are concerend about here is failure rate. Not every barrel has to fail for there to be an issue

---

Lets talk about failures.Can anyone here tell us about a single failure of a stainless steel barrel due to use in cold weather.Not rumors,but an actual case that you have witnessed where it has been determined(by qualified personnel) that the cold temperature was the cause.

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your replies. I was hoping there would be people out there, (on the forum) who worked in petro-chem and martime engineering and could give an opinion.

I was a little surprised when I read a 'quality barrel maker' posted this advice on their website. I can appreciate the effect of cyclic loading, pressures waves and pressure spikes etc. However, in light of the US being a lawyers paradise, I could not imagine any company taking any risk.

With -40F to -50F, plus windchill how does anyone live in Canada, China or Russia in Winter?

Only problems stainless has is if treatment is wrong, like the bunch Sako recalled.And that
has happened to CR-MOLY barrels also.Ed

quote:

---

Originally posted by stubblejumper:
Lets talk about failures.Can anyone here tell us about a single failure of a stainless steel barrel due to use in cold weather.Not rumors,but an actual case that you have witnessed where it has been determined(by qualified personnel) that the cold temperature was the cause.

---

I like your style guy!!!!!

quote:

---

I like your style guy!!!!!

---

Usually the best way to separate the rumors from the facts is to ask for proof.It's amazing how fast the rumors disappear.

Hey Elmo,,,,it was a real pain in the ass to clean my keyboard,,,the monitor was'nt so bad,,,,,,Clay

Both sides here are correct. In reading these psots, I can see how in their contexts, each is "right". It seems there is a fundamental misunderstanding of "failure" and what is deemed "acceptable use" in engineering terms. Would take a couple of years to explain it. Also seems to be a pretty large misunderstaning of product liability/design issues. It is pretty complicated as well.

To restate one of my points-precious few shots are fired each year where the metal temp has reached a homeostasous -40 or less. Having lived in northern MN (not far from where it was -54F last week) and spent A LOT of time in northern Canada and Finalnd, I can assure you that even when I am crazy enough to be out there with a rifle, not many others are. ANd the gun metal is usually warmer.

A man my brother once worked for was hunting in Colorado in very cold temperatures (for a Texan, at least) where the temp stayed around zero for most of two days. One day he stumbled and fell, propelling his rifle muzzle-first down the slope. The muzzle crown struck a rock and a "splinter" broke off of the barrel. The crack intersected the bore and ran back about two inches before exiting the side of the barrel, rendering the rifle useless. The barrel was chrome-moly.