You may wish to check "SAM's WHOLESALE", They have a NICE Winchester Gun Safe for $699.99. It is "expandable" by moving or removing the shelves to make more room for rifles and shotguns. At least look at it before you buy anything else. It has about everything that most people want and need in a gun safe. If it is not big enough for you, then you could purchase two of them (easier to install and move into position). I suggest that you install the safe on an 8 inch high concrete block base and bolt it down.

I'm thinking about selling a shotgun and using the money to buy a fire proof gun safe. I would like to not have to spend over about 1500 dollars. It should hold about 30 long guns. Local dealer sells Browning. I was just wondering what you all use, likes and dislikes about what you have or what to look for in additions like lighting or humity control products. I'm posting here because I didn't know where else to post. I know this isn't gunsmithing but you all got to keep your guns somwhere. Thanks Tony

A safe is a very good idea so get one no matter what. I have a few used office safes. They don't cost as much as new ones of course and many are made to standards. The standards that I know of are class a,b or c and relate to the fire resistance and drop test. There are also TLC standards that relate to being tamper resistant.

These standards may be at company like Moehler.

I paid $500 for the last one delivered and it's TLC 15 rated. If your near an old industrial city these safes are for sale by dealers and locksmiths.

Someone tell me if "gun" safes are made to standards at all?

Ditto what safeshot said. Go to Sam's Club for the best value I've seen in a new gun safe. Or if you can find a used office safe, you may be able to get better fire and burglary protection for possibly less money.



Here's a very high security manganese steel bankers safe:

257 Rock

First off you should know two things about safes.
Number one, none of them are fire"proof". Just sit in one for 15 or 20 minutes in a 20,000 degree house fire and see if you don't melt.

Number two, They absolutely will not hold as many guns as they advertise. If you want a spot for 30 guns you had better get a 40 gun safe.

I have a safe made by Liberty . It's one of there entry level safes. It's fire rated and break in rated. But it's best thing is its almost kid proof. It also sits in my house where it can be seen from the outside. This is so maybe Mr. Thief will pass me by and go to my neighbors house.

I guess the three things to look for in a safe are fire rating, metal thickness and how many bolts does it have.And do they go all the way around the door left and right sides or just one side. Oops thats four things.

Shawn

Tony, I see you're from Wisconsin. I was at Gander Mountain in Batavia, IL this past weekend and they were having a sale on their safes. They ranged in price from $650 for one that looked like it held 12 to 18 long guns, to around $1200-1500 for one big enough to sleep in. If you're near a Gander store in your neck of the woods you may want to check them out.

Tony,
Check out the fire ratings on safes. They will not afford much protection if any. There are some safes that do a better job but if you talk to a fire department about safes and house fire temperatures and durations you will quickly come to the conclusion that it is a waste of time. However a safe is good idea. I had a booth next to a safe manufacturer at a RMEF elk show one year and got quite an education. I did some research on my own that backed up what he said.

I have an old office safe as someone else mentioned. It was built in the day of asbestos use and the walls are 6" thick and hit has double doors. Unfortunately not tall enough for a 26" barrel or long shotguns. I am going to invest in another and was looking at one of those that you can sleep in. Well not quite but it is enormous. I need it for my business and storing my firearms and actions.

I was just at Gander Mountain this past Sat. was not thinking about a safe at the time. I'll try to get back and have a look. Tryed a Google search for Sams Wholesale came up with 31000 places don't have time to look for it. Like Blue I'm thinking if someone wants my guns they will have to come prepared. They won't just pry a door open to get at them. The fire rating won't help much if the whole house goes up but might help in a small fire.

Go here:

http://www.samsclub.com

A gun safe is the best firearm investment you'll ever make. They are all pretty much the same, big steel box w/ a lock. I have a Fort KNox, but as I said, they are all the same. Get the cheapest & BIGGEST one you can. If you think you need 30, get a 40. It never ceases to amaze me how those little devils keep multiplying! The comments on fireproofing are also spot on. You are better off putting the safe in a small fireproof room (ie, dble 5/8" gyp. both sides of the wall w/ a sprinkler right over the safe). Exposed steel will melt in any serious fire, so putting "Fireproofing" INSIDE does very little.

Customstox, if you're in the market for a safe, it would be worth your while to drive over the hill to the wet side of Washington and visit Sportco in Fife. Good selection and prices. Ed

If I could afford it and find a way to do it without breaking my house I would build a separate room off the side of the basemement with 18" thich conctrete walls and ceiling. I would install a comercial fire door backed by a vault door. Room would be big enough to hold all my hunting, shooting, camping, and reloading equipment and supplies plus have room for a large work bench. It would need to run the width of my basement and be about 12 foot deep. This way my house could burn to the ground and my guns and other valuables stored in it would be fine. It could also double as a great storm shelter.

My brother in-law had a smaller one dug and pored durring the construction of his house.

Me I bought a used Browning advertised to hold 36 or something like that and it might hold as many as 30 if I am careful.

For what it's worth....

I have the Winchester safe Sam's Club sells. It has been an excellent unit. House fires don't usually last long enough or get hot enough for the 30 minute, 1200 degree rating, unless you live 50+ miles from a fire station and have a HUGE house. In that case put it against an outside wall to remain somewhat cooler.

2 strong suggestions:

Do NOT raise it up and then bolt it down. This makes it too easy for a thief to cut the holding bolts and remove it. If it is flat against your concrete foundation, it is almost impossible for 3-4 guys to rip it up. 1 Guy can chip out a cinder block and use bolt cutters on hold down studs in very short order.

Do NOT put ammunition in it, at all. They can cook off at temperatures (actually the primers will) well below the char temperature of paper. Even a few rounds in a loaded gun can cook off and send the internal temperatuers skyrocekting. A full case of ammo might turn it into a bomb.

They really are worth the money, and do bolt it down, especially if you have kids. I found that mine will rock (on carpet) with the door open, so it falling over is a real (if remote) possibility. Not to mention that bolting it upright makes it much harder to break into.

I have a Liberty, Lincoln series gun safe. It's big and it's heavy, and a good value! It will hold 54 long guns!

This safe on ebay would make a nice gun safe for someone able to move it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2986942885&category=3204

Check out Homeland for some nice safes. I had them build me a 60"X30"X27" safe that included 2300 degree ceramic fire insulation, 1" thick steel door, 1/4" thick steel body, 14 1.5" steel locking bolts, 15 pistol hangers, internal lighting, nice internal and external finish, dehumidifying rod, and the upgraded spy-proof S&G lock for $1500. Email me at dtwiebe@yahoo.com for more details.

Thanks a lot for that link! that is a real good pricing, I think even lower than the local company I got mine from. And thanks for the link to the E-bay item, don't worry 257, I am not thinking of bidding on it if you want it. Just watching to see what it goes for.

I do recommend a couple of things that others have mentioned:

1. build a vault if you have the option, even converting a closet would work. might think about Wonderboard lining, you wouldn't believe its resistance to heat

2. Get much bigger!!! remember, the capacity is how many can be put in there, tightly. My safe is 60x27x30 or so, and I have 18 rifles in it. That is because i have it setup so I don't have to move anything out of the way to pull a gun out. minimize dinging that way, and speed the whole process up. I can take a picture of mine if you want, just imagine a big U shaped rack, that's how mine is setup.

Red

I bought one of the Sam's Club Winchester safes last year. It's great. Nice green color, winchester script and rider on front in gold. Tan padded interior. Holds 11 or 22 long guns.

All this safe talk has me thinking about what is required to build or convert a closet to a fire proof safe? Are there any web sites with information on this?

Just comes to mind since I am finishing off the other half of the basement and so now would be a good time to add such an item.

Thanks
Gene

Widely used for fire resistance in safes....

drumroll please

.....Regular ol' gypsum drywall!

Put several layers in your closet, overlapping and sealing the seams, and you have a pretty reasonable fire resistant closet. At least it is until the frame of the house burns through and collapses! For that level of strength you need cinderblock (or similar) structure.

Isn't that the same stuff as sheetrock? the gypsum stuff I mean.

See here is something to be aware of, and many people forget, certain insulators retain head. That is why you don't want a safe lined with sheetrock type material for heat resistance, sure, it will keep the heat down, but will hold it too, so the safe stays hot inside much longer.

almost every single fire in the united states that takes a home could have been prevented by fire sprinklers. they are not installed often in homes because.....get this.....when it was discussed a couple decades ago it was fire departments that recommended against it! At the time they were afraid of the job cuts that would result. Crazy I know.

SO. If you want it to be as perfect a setup as possible, get a very good safe and put it in a room that has a sprinkler system.

I still think that wonderboard would work good for standard fire protection in a vault. My friends custom barbeque uses it around the sides and you can stand right next to it with the thing full of burning oak and not burn yourself.

Red

fla3006,
I thought that was a heavy duty, front loading washing machine.

Yes, is is sheetrock. Yes it will retain heat longer, but as soon as the high heat on the outside is reduced by the fire going out, the heat stops rising inside. Simple heat transfer, the rate of heat transfer is directly proportional to the difference in temperature of the 2 points. It is a tradeoff of heat rapidly going up then rapidly going down vs. slowly going up to a lesser level then slowly going down. Which do you think will ignite materials on the inside faster........

Besides, as soon as it is hosed down by the fire department, 212 degrees F will be as hot as it will get.

The heat resisting component of the sheetrock, BTW, is the fact that large amounts of moisture is retained by it at all times due to its chemical and physical structure. You have to boil all the water out of it to get above 212. Pretty good fire protection, for a while.

"fla3006, I thought that was a heavy duty, front loading washing machine."

Yep, a 4000 lb washing machine. Got timers like a washing machine too !