I am currently refinishing the stock on a sporterized Arisaka that I picked up at a gun show last fall, and I have a couple of questions I hope you guys can help me with. First, this rifle is chambered for 7X57, was that a common modification for these rifles? It appears to have the military barrel, that is, the rifleing is reallly tight. I have never seen one chambered for this caliber, but I really haven't looked at too many Arisakas either, What would the origional caliber have been? Also, I recently read where Timney used to make a replacement trigger and safety for these things, anyone have an idea where I could latch on to one of these? Any info would be appreciated, thanks.
Do you mean it is rebored to 7mm, then chambered for the 7X57mm? Or is it a new 7X57 barrel? Or perhaps the 7X57mm necked down to .264"? The reason I ask is that in the American Rifleman years ago there was a story about a 6.5mm Arisaka that someone had rechambered for the .30/'06 case, and was actually firing .30-caliber bullets through the .26 caliber bore!! There was no damage to the gun, and the bullets "came out looking like arrows" because they lengthened when squeezing through the bore!! What brought this freak to the attention of the NRA was that the owner sent it in to be evaluated because of its' poor accuracy!!
The Arisaka was often rechambered in the U.S. for the 57mm length Mauser case necked to 6.5mm, so what one had was a 6.5X57 (orignial Arisakas are 6.5X50mm, and the Japanese cartridge case-head diameter is about the same as the 6.5X54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer case. Originally in the U.S., the ammo for the rechambered 6.5X57 Arisakas was usually made by necking up the .257 Roberts round, but you could get the same results by necking down the 7X57 Mauser case Thee is nothing basically wrong with the 6.5X50mm Arisaka round. It is very efficient!!
Eldeguello- I have to once again confess that in 1965, I at the ripe old age of 16 did in fact rechamber a 6.5 Arisaka that my best friends dad brought home from the pacific to 30-06 using a reamer that probably was made in 1906 ( a true half reamer that was used to make a reloading die.). We shot mil surplus 30-06 ammo out of it for years. It accounted for two Bucks at 50 to 100 yrds that I know of and it's accuracy was about 3 inches at 100 yrds. The bullets did indeed look like pencils and we particularily liked the old FRONTIER soft points. No kidding, the arisaka action is incredibly strong and my friends and I were living proof. The rifle was shown to a local gunsmith, a Mr Selner who could not believe what we had done! I received a stern warning and a summer job helping him build custom rifles. He took a heck of alot of interest in a kid with good mechanical skills and virtually no money and I'm still gratefull. Nevertheless, that Arisaka was and probably still is safe to shoot. What happened to this rifle beats me, as I doubt I was the only person to do this back in those days. Remember that back then a Arisaka could be bought for $5 and M98's for $15-20. You really had very little to lose. Apparantly the NRA got ahold of it or someone elses version and the story got started. Of all the military actions, the Arisaka is undoubtably the strongest and ugliest at the same time.-Rob
I'm sure you are referring to the type 38 Arisaka, which is the 6.5 mm rifle but also remember the type 99 Arisaka which was a 7.7mm round. Obviously accuracy would be lacking if you ran a 7mm bullet through a 7.7mm bore, but I can't remember the case length which I think was a tiny bit longer than the 30-06. Have you tried to slug the bore yet? Also, does it have military sights on it? If I remember the barrel on mine was pretty crude when I first got it, I took the steps off the barrel with an old 1 inch wide belt sander, but there was still no way it could be confused with a custom barrel. Also, it occurred to me that it may be chambered to the 6.5X57 or 6.5 Roberts, and the person who you got it from only remembered that it used 7X57 brass as the basis for the reforming. Have you tried chambering a round or an empty yet?
Posts: 7786 | Location: Between 2 rivers, Middle USA | Registered: 19 August 2000
This particular rifle is chambered for 7X57, it is possible the barrel is a replacement. It does have the really fast spiral of the military arisakas I have seen though. Did the arisaka barrel have a step like the Mauser? I also have an Arisaka that has been rechambered to 6.5X57. It is the only other one I have owned, so I am really just learning about them. Both rifles shoot about 1.5" at 100yd consistently, and neither seems very persnickety about ammo. I had a mauser 96 at one time that was chambered for 6.5X257RobertsAI, it was quite accurate as well.
If I remember correctly there are 2 steps in the barrel, one midway down and one at the muzzle where the sight fits. If the sight has been removed you will definately see it there.
Posts: 7786 | Location: Between 2 rivers, Middle USA | Registered: 19 August 2000
Like several others, my first "big game" rifle was an altered Type 38 rechambered to 6.5 x 257 Roberts, my dad built on an action he brought home at the end of WWII. It was rough, but I had fun with it.
As to your question about the trigger, Timney used to make a trigger, but I don't see it listed in the newest Brownell's catalog. If you really want another trigger, you could try to contact Timney directly to see if they still have any. As to the Arisaka actions, P.O. Ackley did tests of actions, trying to blow them up from overloads, and found the Japanese actions to be the strongest in his tests.
Posts: 3866 | Location: Eastern Slope, Colorado, USA | Registered: 01 March 2001
Apparently this is an aftermarket barrel, as there are no steps in it, or evidence that there were any. That would explain the unusual chambering. Well that is the fun of old rifles, investigating the little mysteries. I think I might drop Timney a line and see if they have any plans to start making triggers and safeties again. Actually I kind of like two stage triggers, but I don't like the Arisaka safety. Thank you gentlemen once again for the help.
I picked up one of these Arisakas a few (OK, more then a few) years back. It had been sporterised by Jeffries in England (according to the markings on the gun) and was chambered for 6.5 X 54 MS. A neat little rifle. Sadly, it went in a trade. Too soon old, too late smart. - Dan
Posts: 5285 | Location: Alberta | Registered: 05 October 2001
You might want to play with the safety for a little bit before you decide it is not for you, if you are planning on hunting with this rifle it is very easy to push and rotate it with your thumb. It may take a little playing with, plus you may want to disassembe the bolt and clean it up a little so it comes off smoothly and quietly, but you might wind up liking it as you don't have to remove your hand from the shooting position to take it off.
Posts: 7786 | Location: Between 2 rivers, Middle USA | Registered: 19 August 2000
Robgunbuilder, your story of making the 6.5mm/.30/'06 Arisaka is very interesting!! It may have been the very one the NRA tested, or perhaps there were more than one of these things!! As you note, the 6.5mm original Arisaka (not the 7.7mm!!) was an extremely strong action, as Ackley found out by trying to blow them up!! The 7.7mm is not exactly an Arisaka, because there were a couple of changes made to the action to accept the 7.7X58mm cartridge, which is ballistically a sort of rimless version of the .303 British round (Japanese military ammo, that is). This 7.7mm cartridge is 58mm long, or 5mm SHORTER than the .30/'06. However, when I compared case capacities of the 7.7X58mm to the '06, I discovered that the Japanese case holds ALMOST as much H335 as an '06 does!! In a strong action, it probably could be loaded to almost equal '06 factory ammo, if you were using Norma cases.
The NRA's "Dope Bag" Arisaka test was published in the mid-1950s. I remember it well because it was absolutely fascinating.
The original owner did not complain about the accuracy and testified he'd nailed his deer nicely for a couple of seasons. However, he was distressed at the severe recoil and asked if something could be done about it. The Rifleman editors smelled a rat and requested the rifle for examination. It was indeed nicely chambered for .30-06 at the back of a 6.5mm barrel.
They tested it with our service ammo (and a long string), caught the bullets and published photos. As I recall, they declined to shoot for groups.
The bullets were totally fascinating. Very, very long. The rifle was undamaged in the short run, but they retired it and gave the owner something safe as a replacement, thereby making him a very happy camper. I think they put the altered Jap rifle in the museum at the time, but whether it's there anymore or not I couldn't say. I'm not going to bother trying to ask, because I've never gottten squat from the NRA Museum when I've written questions or donated information.
As to the gentleman's 7x57, personally I'd very much like to learn the slugged diameter of his bore's grooves.....
Well, you guys have got me thinking now,( I know, dangerous )I think I will cast the chamber and check the bore diameter. This rifle has no excessive recoil, and the accuracy is decent, about what I would expect for an old military rifle. I would like to know more about the Mexican contract thing though, I have never heard that one.
Ross, I had heard somewhere that the Mexicans had gotten some Arisakas, but did not know they were in 7X57mm!! That of course, makes sense, since they for the most part were using 7X57mm mausers inj the days of the Mexican Revolution(s!!)/Civil wars. I assume such a rifle as an original Arisaka in 7X57mm would be worth quite a lot!!
From what I have been able to find out, Mexico was looking for anyone that would make them rifles between WWI and WWII, and Japan stepped up. They sold Mexico about 5000 type 38 rifles chambered for 7X57, then Mexico defaulted on the payments. One source I found said the remaining weapons were sold to Britain, who in turn sold them to Russia.
