Hi
I have been considering a Win Mod 70 .375 H&H for my hunt in 2007. Hase any one had any experince with the Mod 70 Like mine.
I bought a new in the box mod 70 .25 wssm. for whiteail and other small game. On my first trip to the range I brought some win factory loads 100gr supreme. When I fired them the bolt was difficult to lift the handle but I continued to zero the scope and the shoot some groups. This gun shot worst than any gun I have ever fired. 3-4 inches at 100 yards was the best group. so i checked the scope cleaned the gun and tried again another day after I bought another couple boxes of amo with the same results.
I could not belive my results so I took the gun to my gunsmith and had him remount the scope and then too the gun to a local guy that makes realy good custome ammo and left it with him to work up a load.


after a few days He called me and said to come pick up my rifle that he could not make it shoot.
I called winchester and the service people treated me like I was a idoit and were no help.Just told me to send them the rifle.
I talked to my gunsmith he said that in his experince that they would send the gun back and say there was nothing wrong with it. I belive Him after my conservation.
I'm stuck with a gun that I can't feal good about selling so I guese I'll let Kevin weaver rebarrel and square my action. around $500.
Has anyone else had thes problemes with winchester.
More important do you want a DGR made by a sorry Co. like Winchester.
Baylor Jewell

I have heard storys like this about all the major gun makers. Remember they are made on a production line. A bad one comes out now and then if your unlucky your the one that gets it.

Over all most of the guns produced work well and fuction like they are surpose to. Every once in a while a real gem comes up and is great. But then one comes out that is junk. I have heard could story about guns being sent back and being fix then I have heard bad storys also.

What to do with your rifle. Free float the barrel, glass bed it ect, send it back and hoep they fix it. Pay to have good smith work on it up to rebarreling and stock work.

That is something you well have to decide.

DrB, I had a Model 70 Classic chambered in 7 STW that shot straight but after 3 shots I had to put the butt of the rifle on the ground and beat the bolt open with the heel of my hand. I thought about sending it back to USRA and probably should have but I was in a hurry for a rifle and traded it in on a Remington Sendero and haven't looked back.

quote:

Has anyone else had thes problemes with winchester.
More important do you want a DGR made by a sorry Co. like Winchester.
Baylor Jewell

The only experience I have had with Winchester Model 70's was with two pre-64's. One was a .308 Featherweight, and the other a Super Grade .375 H&H. Both shot extremely well, and the .375 was a dream! Except for the fact that the .375 weighed 11 pounds with a full magazine, scope (Alaskan/Paul Jaeger side mount), and sling.....

I bought a Model 70 in 264 WM almost 20 years ago for a long range deer rifle. It acted like yours. I was very disappointed. What good is a long range rifle that shoots 4" groups at 100 yards? I don't remember the exact details but I reworked the trigger, glass and piller bedded the rifle and lapped the bolt lugs. I believe lapping the bolt lugs was what finally worked. Of course I also fired a couple hundred rounds during the process which may have helped. Anyway it ended up consistently putting the first 3 rounds inside 1" at 100 yards. The shots climb after the first 3 but 5 still stay under 1-1/2". I have killed a pile of deer with that rifle and don't feel right without it now.

I also bought a pre-64 30-06 a few years earlier. It would just about keep 5 rounds on a paper plate at 100 yards. It had a extremely heavy trigger and a bedding problem. After fixing those it became the most consistently accurate hunting rifle I have ever owned. It would consistently put 5 factory rounds, either Remington or Federal, into one inch at 100 yds. With good reloads it would approach 1/2". Sadly the barrel is history now.

I also have a Remington 700 in 6mm with a off center chamber and deep gouges and burrs in the chamber. It will put 5 into 2-1/2" at 100 even after lapping lugs, bedding and trigger work. I would rebarrel it but it is my wife's deer rifle and she has some mystical attachment to it and won't let me touch it. It works for her!

It could be something minor or something major wrong with your rifle. I will go out on a limb and say it probably isn't the barrel. It is more likely to be some other misalignment in the action or bedding.

Either get Winchester to take it back, and send you another one... good luck there.

Or have it worked over by a smith.

As someone mentioned, these are all "mass produced" guns, and although most function well enough, they still perform like "mass produced" guns.

The surest bet is to send it to a good smith who will take off the barrel, blueprint the action, lapp the lugs, possibly recut the barrel threads, etc...

That will ensure that it's put together correctly, and that nothing is binding...and most times they shoot very well for "hunting gun" accuracy.

If that doesn't solve it, then you're down to the barrel. But if something is wrong with the barrel (bent, rough, etc...) a good smith should be albe to identify that before investing in the other work.

http://www.hillcountryrifles.com/accurizeit.asp

Hill Country Rifles guarantees sub 1" groups after doing this work on your factory barrel.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:
local guy that makes realy good custome ammo and left it with him to work up a load....
after a few days He called me and said to come pick up my rifle that he could not make it shoot.

I do custom accuracy workups and have had 2 Browning WSSM's in the shop lately, one in .223 and the other in .245 WSSM. Bolt lift and closure were problems, and had to F/L resize after each firing. One load in the .243 with a 2.0 gr less than max charge gave me 250 fps more mv than the max charge, and near impossible bolt lift. Finally was able to get them both to shoot well-but it was not fun and I would never buy one for myself nor advise a customer to buy one.

I have 2 Winchester 70s in 25 WSSM and have shot the cheaper Super Shadow quite a bit. I have not used the new 110 grain Accubonds, but I have had good luck with both the 85 and 115 grain BST factory loads. The Super Shadow required only minimal effort to make it among the best out of the box shooters that I've owned.

I would suggest that you call Winchester customer service again. If you explain your problem and don't get satisfaction, ask to speak to the person's supervisor. Keep working your way up the hierarchy until you get your problem resolved. The customer service person might not know up from down when it comes to Model 70s. (or anything else for that matter!).

If you are anywhere near Omaha, I'd be happy to look at your rifle for you.

Jeff

IMHO Winchester should stand by their product. Call and get a name from that customer service individual, then write to the President of the Company and tell him who you spoke with and what you expect. Be realistic and be civil. Be patient and follow up with the higher ups. Mention your membership in local gun clubs and larger shooting organizations and how you love to tell about the success stories of dealing with the companies. Make friends. Good luck.

I used to work for a large insurance company and when a "presidential complaint" came in, everybody jumped to get the details and offer the policy owner a reasonable explanation/solution. I think that the best way to get something done is to work through the proper process, but when the process doesn't work, taking your problem to the guy at the top usually gets the process jump-started. If possible, get the USRA President's home phone number from http://www.usa.com and call him at home, during dinner. If that doesn't get his attention, send me the rifle and I'll take a crack at it.

Jeff

I have three M70 Safari Express rifles. I bought two in 416 Rem mag and one in 375H&H. The 375 and the second 416 I bought shoot fine. No major problems, but I wish the 416 fed a litlle smoother. The other 416 had a major probem with the barrel recoil lug. It was welded to the barrel crooked, rotated about 15 to 20 degrees off. It made the rifle shoot about 20 inches to the right at 50 yds and there was not enough adjustment in the sights or the scope to get it on target. I removed the bedding around the barrel recoil lug and then it shot fine. That rifle is not longer a 416, it had been rebarreled to 470 Capstick with a Krieger barrel.

oh, I thought by sick you meant "HELLA TYTE DAEWGZ"!!11

Two winnies in a row had to be sent back, model 70 safari classic all 4 scope mounting holes were drilled crooked (really crooked) and off center and then a model 70 classic laminate 300wsm the chamber was so rough and out of center you could barely close the bolt. On tthe first one winchester sent me out a new gun in 375 with upgraded wood ASAP and the second i am still waiting to hear back about.

Several People have sugested that the barrel might shoot in after 200 or so rounds. I have no desire or do I think I should have to spend $300 - $400 on ammunition and hours of time shooting in a barrel. Why cant Win get it right.
I have owned dozens of Rem 700's, 600's, 742's and 760's, also Browing BAR's, spring field M1A', H&K's, and colt's, None have shot this poorly. Hell I have a SKS that shoots better than this Winchester Mod 70.
What think I'm going to do is have my smith go through it and possibly change the barrel. One thing is forsure I will never buy another Winchester
Does any one have a sugestion on which DGR I should buy.
Does any one know what Phil Shomaker shoots.in 458 win mag.
Dr B.

Several People have sugested that the barrel might shoot in after 200 or so rounds. I have no desire or do I think I should have to spend $300 - $400 on ammunition and hours of time shooting in a barrel.

I guess If I had to buy factory ammo to break a barrel in I wuld just spend the money getting it barreled.

One can buy and have put on a real nice douglas barrel for about that amount.300to 400.

If you don't want to fuss with it sell take the loss and move on.

I brought a rem 700 in 300 wm from a guy who won it at a DU dinner. It was new in the box it wouldn't shoot into 8 inchs at a hundred. the barrel had so much upwards pressure on the foretip that one could see the barrel move when one tighten the action srews down.

I freefloated it glass bedded it ajusted the trigger and with its best load she'll do under .75 at a 100.

A pain in the butt yea should of the factory caught it before being shipped yea. But I like working on guns and enjoyed making it shoot.

First, I don't own a recently made Winchester bolt rifle. But, there are two of my friends who have bought them recently.
One guy bought a Model 70 in 416 Rem. I was at the range the day he took it out to zero it. The front sight was mounted incorrectly, so he had to send it back to Winchester to have it fixed, which they did do. The second guy bought a Model 70 in some 30 caliber that I don't remember. I was at the range the day he was sighting it in, with scope newly installed. He could not get the rifle to shoot closer than one foot to the left at 100 yards. He was using a Leupold scope with Leupold mounts. We both thought the problem was caused by holes drilled incorrectly. I haven't kept track of the outcome to his problem.
I won't be buying any Winchester rifles.
Don

I think that you are giving up way too easy. I would dog USRA until I got satisfaction.

Before you spend the money to rebarrel it, let me take a crack at making it shoot. Like I posted previously, the $429 Super Shadow that I have is among the most accurate out of the box rifles that I've ever owned. I did adjust the trigger and open the barrel channel, but the bedding was nice a tight, even in the factory synthetic stock. I had no trouble shooting 1" to 1.5" groups with the 115 grain SBT factory loads, starting with the 1st box.

Jeff

I just went thru this with a model 70 supergrade in a .270 win. I glass bedded the action, free floated the bbl (it was binding on the stock in the forearem) reduced the trigger pull from something around 7 lbs to 3.5 lbs, and replaced the firing pin spring with a Wolfe competition spring (on the recommendation by a local 'smith.) 100 yd 3 shot groups went from something like 1.75" avg to 1" avg with a best group of 5/8". Now I think I can start finding the right load.

jh

If it were mine I would try to have Win replace it.

If that didn't work I'd bed it and freefloat the barrel. If that didn't help significantly then I'd have a smith recrown it and check the headspace. If the headspace allows, I would have a smith lap the lugs. Those are relatively cheap procedures and only after having that done would I have the whole gun reworked if accuracy still sucked (true the action and boltface and rebarrel).

I'm sorry to hear you got a lemmon.

BTW, what scope do you have on your rifle? Are you sure it's not simply a bad scope? If you can, mount the scope on a gun that you know is accurate and see if the scope is good.

i had a m70 super grade that locked the bolt up. returned it to winchester, they sent me a new one with upgraded wood..

I bought two model 70s in 1993/4, and both were duds. One was in 270 Weatherby, the other a 7m/m Remington magnum. To their credit, Winchester fixed them and both came home with new barrels.

Hello the campfire:
The new issue of Sports Afield has an artical on rifle bedding and mentioned a Mod. 70 with a problem similar to yours. It seems that the Barrel channel was binding in a small place on one side. This was due to warpage from humidity in Alaska, and the change from Texas (although I can not see Alaska having more humidity than Texas). The rep[air was to releive the tight spot and refinish the inside of the stock.
Judge Sharpe

A few years back, I found a Winchester Featherweight push feed in 7x57 at a small gun shop. I'd been looking for on ever since they came out, so when I saw the price was right, I snapped it up. I mounted a brand new Leupold M8 4X on it and went to sight it in. It didn't make any difference, factory loads, handloads, 5 inches was the best the gun would do. So I contact Bir "W" and tell them my problem with the gun. Their response was a terse, Take it to a gunsmith." I did, and after I got the gun back, I sent them a bill for the work he did. I figure since it's been three years since I billed them, I'll never see my money. FWIW, in my case, I was about to decied getting rid of that rifle as after the work I had done, it still would not shoot. Finally, I changes scopes, as a last resort. I mean, the scope on the gun was brand new. It should be OK right? Well, the first group with factory ammo was under an inch and my handloads beat those all to hell, with some as small as .375". I'm planning on disposing a few rifles that just sit in the corner, but that one is a keeper.
Just my not very humble opinion, but I think that ever since that French conglomerate bought out USRAC, quality and especially customer service have gone down the crapper.
Will I ever buy another new Winchester? As long as the Frogs control the company, HELL NO!. Used ones though are another thing.

For the person who asked what Phil Shoemaker's .458 Win. is built on, it's a 98 Mauser. I think it was on a military action, but again, he might have used a commercial one. I don't remember. Somehow, my feeble memory says military.
Paul B.

Myself, I've had the LEAST amount of problems with the SS Model 70 Classics, compared to some other well-known brands. They are very nearly about the only brand I'll buy. I do lust for a 700 VSSF II, however, what a good looking rifle! FWIW, in the latest issue of "Successful Hunter", Phil Shoemaker mentions that at his hunting camp in Alaska, ALL the centerfire rifles there are SS Model 70's, one .338, two .375's and one .416.

Correction: Mr. Shoemaker actually says that all of the stainless steel rifles in his camp are Model 70's. Not that ALL the rifles in his camp are SS Model 70's!

quote:

Originally posted by Paul B:
Will I ever buy another new Winchester? As long as the Frogs control the company, HELL NO!.

I never would have bought the the rifle if I had known the !!! Frogs owned the Co.

Just out of curiosity, how are the groups developing. From a cold barrel you start shooting. where does the first bullet usually go, and the second, etc. etc.

Dr B,
You are not stuck with the rifle yet. You have not tried to get some resolution from Winchester other than a phone call. I suspect that with a hard bolt lift, you may well have some head space problems. I would make another call and try to get further up the food chain at customer service. Give them a shot before you resort to rebarreling.

quote:

but I reworked the trigger, glass and piller bedded the rifle

While the M-70 is my favorite rifle I must say that they seem to prosper with glass bedded actions and free floated barrels. This is true with others as well.....the only rifle I'd expect to shoot with excellent results out of the box is a Savage.....

Iconsider Savage a good target/varmint single shot.....not a hunting gun however.

After reading so much Ruger bashing on this forum it is refreshing to hear about problems with other brands. All rifles are machines and can have problems. I personally would do some research and find out the contact information for the president/CEO of Winchester and all the board members. They are very sensitive to anything that affects the bottom line such as a vocal, disatisfied customer. A well written very business like letter that clearly outlines your expectations and the amount of effort you will make to tell the world about the success or failure of their customer service may have the desired effect.

I used to work for a multi-billon dollar company and I have used the above approach successfully. The main thing is to appeal to their profit/loss mentallity and their concern about stock holders. I have even bought one share of a companys stock so I could write to the folks as a stock holder. In one extreme case the CEO of the company came out in a private jet hand carrying a replacement product.

Remember to be civil and business-like. Ranting and raving just gets you labeled a kook and they will ignore you.