Finally ran up to Kalispell and picked up my RH Mag M99 LA. Anyone who hasn't seen one of these beauties ought to before beginning their next project. About perfect. The bolt release button seems out of place, doesn't feel "classic" or something but as a whole, a wonderful piece of work.

They come "semi polished"--all convex radii are polished but the left bolt race and ejection port are left as cast, something that needs to be dealt with. Some small touch ups in tight places also. Now I've got Dennis Olsen lined up to do the barrel work, action truing and bluing but I'd love to be able to invest my self a bit in the action as this is an important project for me. I tinker but am no trained smith--can I take on the finish polishing? I have a set of india stones on order, handy in any case. I've heard to stone the flat surfaces (ejector port and races) and have both rounded stones and the dreaded Dremmel and all the polishing attachments but really don't want to screw this beauty up in any way. Is this a realistic thing or are odds on that I'll regret it? Both the money saved and the pride in the piece (I'm doing the stock from a blank myself also) do matter to me so if I could do a good job with it I'd like to.

Just looking for guidance and resources I guess. Thanks all.

Jay Kolbe

Jack Belk has polished one inside and out. Hopefully he will chime in.

The finish of the action has been a topic of discussion that is actually pretty easy to answer but can be long winded. The goal at MRC was to offer a good product at a great price, and yet keep the company profitable enough to develop additional models. Cost are kept in line and margins are slim, but the result is a reasonable price.

We currently polish the action above the stock line. The interior of the receiver, except for bolt bore, lug engagement areas, face of the Mauser collar and other critical mating surfaces is "as cast". Don't misinterpret this as being rough. As Jack Belk once said, "It's pretty slick as shipped." And "It got a LOT better by stoning." I can say from personal knowledge that every action going out of here operates very smoothly. Could it be better? Sure, but not everybody would be willing to pay the extra $3-400 or more the extra costs another operation would inflict upon this action. If you are one who would, ring up Mr. Belk or someone like him and for a few hundred more, he'll turn your M1999 into a Swiss watch, outside and inside.

There are many dimensions in the design we consider critical. These are typically held to +/- .001 True Position. There are four datum points in the receiver and four more in the bolt. Datum points establish a common point reference for multiple dimensions in order to eliminate tolerance stacking over the length of the bolt or receiver. Our machining vendors "whine" all the time about the tolerances on our drawings. If they weren't whining, I'd be worried.

I am, as a representative of this company taking all of your suggestions and submitting them to those who make the final decisions. Please know that your suggestions do not go unheard and many of them have been a factor in changes to the actions.

Thanks
Dan

snowcat:
Go over to Gunsmithing under the latest M1999 postings and read the ones from walex. He's hosed off about something. You say your action is the bee's knees; he has other, less-admirable things to say about it. I'm confused now and not a bit worried. All this time and what do we do now? The ship hasn't sunk, but I am looking around for the lifeboats, if you know what I mean.

RB-
I read Walex's posts and they are disturbing, of course. I can't say I fully understand the problem he's talking about though as it's hard for me to imagine the safety shroud augering into the tang area of the stock regardless of the malfunction. I need to look at my action over at lunch to see if I can figure out what he's talking about.

My first impression though is that the guy should have had a qualified smith look at the action and determine EXACTLY what's going on with his before flaming a product and company in such a public way. I understand he's dissappointed and if indeed he finds what he believes to be a design flaw with the action, he has a responsibility to publicize it. However, tearing into the company on a public forum like this with such limited information as to the root of the problem is inappropriate, in my opinion. His right, of course, but when the stakes for this company are this high, he better be damned sure he's right. He's a new poster and I have no impression as to his normal M.O. or knowledge.

I'll tell you this though, I DO have tremendous respect for Mr. Belk and others who have praised the design of this action. They have been world class gunsmiths longer than I have been alive. If Jack's willing to use an M1999 as the base for a Guild Rifle project I'm much more willing to give both MRC and the M99 the benefit of the doubt. I'm surely not going to throw mine in the lake based on just one AK fisherman's (6 posts) emotional opinion. I will follow MRC's response closely, of course.

As for the action's finish, your smith will want to do some finish polishing. As MRC posted above, this action was designed as a base for gunsmiths to build on and the company left some of the detail work up to them. FYI-my action is very usuable as is, I just wanted a polished ejection port, rear receiver face etc. I got some great info from a board member on the polishing process, talked to my gunsmith, and will take this on myself. If the "orange peel" finish of these surfaces doesn't bother you you could leave them as is. Cycling the rifle with some Flitz in the bolt races a few times smoothed things up very quickly if you don't want to do the full polish.

Long winded. We'll see what MRC says.

snow,
About this polishing with Flitz... How exactly do you do it? I'm guessing you blob some it in the bolt raceways and open-close-open-close to your heart's content? I've read in these posts that the left raceway wasn't polished?? Why would that not have been done? Wouldn't you want a smooth track upon which the lugs would ride? Why are the French so strange?

To Jack Belk:
Not a few of us with M1999 actions on order are a bit concerend with the posts we've been reading about the finish and function of the item. Can you put up some photos of the one you polished as well as your expert commentary about the piece? We'd all rest a little easier if we could see one. I know it's a time-consuming thing but if you could, we'd appreciate it. Thanks.

All I did was apply the Flitz to the lug contact surfaces--it'll be pretty clear to you where you need to reapply the lapping compound.

Hello everyone. Many of you have personally emailed me regarding recent posts on Accurate Reloading. I've read the posts and would like to thank all those who have posted with concerns about the actions. Before I sit here and try to answer any of the posts I would like to get the opinion from one or two respected individuals who post here. And they would be either Mr. Jack Belk or Mr. Tom Burgess. Once the rifle comes back to me I would like to send it to either party to examine and report back their findings on this message board. I would also like to request at the same time that they give us any recommendations that they feel will make this a better product. We have people working here each and every day that are going over every detail of the action to make it better, but unfortunately sometimes things that may seem minor may get overlooked. We respect the opinions of everyone who posts here and will take every recommendation into account when doing any future modifications or improvements. You can believe me (I hope) when I say that whenever someone recommends anything about our actions or barrels that I am listening and am pushing to correct any short comings.

rootbeer---

Here's a re-post of the critique I wrote in January. I still haven't seen a M-1999 that had anything wrong with it but have volunteered to look at the one that's in question.

______________________________________________

MONTANA 1999 ACTION---

This is not a DeHaas style report with dimensions, measurements and technicalities of an action. It's more an initial impressions of a new action.

My primary focus is on the receiver and bolt and over-all usefulness of the action in custom rifles. I haven't barreled, shot, tested or proofed one of these actions……..but I would. It's NICE!!

The action I received was heat-treated, but totally unpolished as I requested. The scale was blasted off the receiver and bolt but they were raw out of the molds. The shroud and bottom metal were finished by the aftermarket suppliers. The shroud is polished and the bottom metal carries a vibra-tub finish.

As cast, the action was rough looking but was actually VERY close to perfect in straightness, squareness and fit. There was no surface that took more than .015 finishing with the surface grinder to make straight with the bore line. It's common to see other actions take more. The bolt face, inner ring and face of the receiver were square with each other "as delivered". Amazing!! (and uncommon in today's market.) I faced the receiver on the lathe anyhow, but it could have been barreled without it.

The action is a clear variation of the pre-64 Model 70. The few places it differs from the Model 70 tend to be improvements. The action has several features that place it in the company of action costing several times the modest price.

DESCRIPTION------

This action, like the Model 70 Winchester, is capable of cartridges of lengths up to 375 H&H but this one is blocked slightly to reduce it to a 30-06 length. It's controlled-round feed, long, non-rotating extractor action with a unique anti-bind feature to the geometry of the dual opposed front locking lugs. The left lug is dovetailed and the right has a small "stabilizer" mini-lug present that drastically reduces side to side play in the bolt while out of battery. Tolerances are tight as cast and bolt operation is pretty slick…….it got a LOT better with stoning.

The fascinating part is a Mauser-style inner breeching ring that's smaller than the diameter of the bolt !! This is a great feature. It offers the dual shoulder butting of the barrel shank to the receiver just like a "C" ring Model 98 Mauser AND the safety breech funnel of an early Model 70. The inside diameter of this ring is barely .625 which means it's close to cartridge head size and acts as an extension of the barrel.

The greatest safety factor of any action is in the design. The Montana '99 is a classic Mauser system that uses the rapid venting of escaping gas in a safe direction to save body parts instead of trying to seal the action against escaping gas like the push feed "rings of steel" action.

The Montana takes Mauser's design to a new height. Both sides of the receiver ring is vented and the bolt body has more vent area than a M-77 Ruger. This dumps gas and debris from primer failure (the most common) into the magazine box……..and as millions of M-98s attest, that's the best place for it.

Back to the inner ring---- This design is an innovation worthy of great praise. It makes feeding as positive as the pre-64 M-70 and the earlier M-54, P-17 Enfield and 1903 Springfields with a funnel end to the barrel in a classic "safety breech" but without the hassle of cutting an extractor slot. If things should go wrong with a case, the debris is directed back through the firing pin hole into the bolt with twin windows straight down in to the magazine box. The left overs leaks out both sides of the front receiver ring in directions unlikely to have body parts aligned with them.

Anything so excessive as to fill the left lug rail is first slowed by a gas-shield attached, a' la new M-70, to the extractor collar. Further to the rear in the left rail is a combination gas shield and bolt stop. It's a solid and strong unit capable of slowing lots of gas and brass before deformation. The last line of defense is one of the best bolt shrouds I've seen. None of the inherent weaknesses of the original Winchester design is present in this one. The Montana shroud is MUCH better designed and made than the original M-70 that tended to spray parts of melted cartridge case and small parts towards the shooter's eyes.

I would be confident in shooting this action in "Mauser Mode"……in confidence of being warned of my stupidity long before it gets to the dangerous stage.

The Montana 1999 is a VERY nice action at any price and an especially good deal at current price levels. The fact that it can be fit into a M-70 inletted stock and is, in all ways, equal or better in fit, quality and safety than it's clear parent, makes it an especially tasty offering.

Is it perfect? Not in my opinion, but it's a very good value and will make an especially fine rifle. I understand tweaking of the original design is still in progress and actions produced in successive generations should be even better. These are exciting actions and well suited for a wide variety of custom applications.

After two days of surface grinding, hand stoning and polishing, this action is as slick as a pre-war M-70 and better designed. I'll have it on my table at the Reno ACGG show next week. Stop by and fondle it a while.
_______________________________________-

It was handled a LOT at Reno. When I returned I wrote a synopsis of suggestions and comments by some of the best gunmakers in the world.

I wouldn't hesitate to order more and use them on my finest rifles........but I'd repolish first. (I'm a stickler for straight, crisp lines.)

I'll try to locate the pictures I took of the action. I *know* they're here somewhere.

Jack,

So you've seen other M1999 actions after the first one that you critiqued?

Stu C--

I've seen about a dozen actions since the first one......in fact I have one that's being barrelled to 50 Beowolf in the shop today.

The only "bad" one I've ever seen was one of the first dozen or so made. It had been ruined by bad polishing but mechanically and design-wise, was VERY good.

I've heard the internal finish of the M-'99 compared to a Ruger M-77. It's true the surface *finish* is the same 'as cast' finish, but the BIG difference is in tolorences. The Montana can be stoned to a pre-war M-70 fit but the M-77 Ruger will be very sloppy by the time the polishing is done.

IF you have the tools, talent and time, the Montana action can be internally polished in less than a half hour.
If there's enough interest in it I'll take pictures and write up a description of the tools and processes the next time I have one in.

Jack,

Thanks for the offer.

I for one am certainly interested in seeing pictures and a description of the polishing process you are using on Montana actions!

I think it would be an excellant referance point for all of us non-smiths to actually see what goes into the process and what should come out of it.

I have a pair of PHs coming....some day.

Regards,
Dave

Jack,
Add me to the list of those interested in seeing pictures and instructions.

Very much interested in information on polishing techniques and tools.

Jack

I have enjoyed your posts on the subject of the M1999 action.

I would like to see the write up with pictures (how do you ever get the time?) since I now have 5 of these (mini through long) actions on order.

GPT

Please add me too that list Jack. And thanks !!

Wally

Thanks folks---

I found the disk with the M-99 pictures on it and posted some to my Webshots account.
Belk's albums-- Go to page two

Give me some time and I'll get some captions written for the pictures that describe what was done and how.

While you're on that site you might check out some of the other polish jobs. They're pretty much the same process for all.

I also have a zip file of what to buy and how to polish actions. Surely everyone has it by now but if not drop me an email and I'll send it.

Not to sound like a fool, but that "as cast" oversized condition is kinda a dream come true as far as my project guns go (umm besides the tierd elbows and shoulders ) . If it is strait as they claim, it wouldnt take as much work as the current winchesters and remingtons, and would cost you a whole lot less making things right from the get go.

[ 06-28-2003, 04:14: Message edited by: smallfry ]

smallfry said--

quote:

---

If it is strait as they claim, it wouldnt take as much work as the current winchesters and remingtons, and would cost you a whole lot less making things right from the get go.

---

Absolutely right. I'd MUCH rather work with an action fresh off the machine or out of the mold than trying to straighten something that's been buffed. Unfortunately, really good polishing cost a lot of bucks unless done by machine.

If it were ME---- I'd redesign the bolt stop to dovetail in the rail like a Sako and build a machine to polish the Montana like a Dakota.....but that would cost me work, wouldn't it......

I've added captions to the Montana 1999 album.

[ 06-28-2003, 06:03: Message edited by: JBelk ]

originally posted by Jack Belk "If it were ME---- I'd redesign the bolt stop to dovetail in the rail like a Sako and build a machine to polish the Montana like a Dakota.....but that would cost me work, wouldn't it....."
Jack I will forward your recommendation to the powers that be and we'll see where we go from there. Don't be surprised if you get a email or phone call asking for more detailed information.

Thanks, Dan

[ 06-28-2003, 16:48: Message edited by: Dan@Montana Rifle Co ]

Jack,

I'd be glad to allow to use mine for tutorial purposes .

Just kidding, it will be on its way next week. If it ends up looking anything like the on in your album I'll be elated.

Bob

Thanks for letting us peek at your album. some very nice work in there and some great idea-starters.

Also makes me feel a LOT better about the MRC actions I've got coming. Alaskan post had me worried, but with yours as examples, I feel very mellow.

BTW, do you EVER sleep? Wish I could do that much..work in the shop, take & post photos, answer questions here..you must hold the patent on the 37 hour day!!!

Thanks again,

AC

N.B. Will be at the range tomorrow, looks like Monday before I get a pic of the Baker trigger mess to you...