Dear Guy's
I am looking at purchasing a new video camera.
1. What format ? (video 8 or HD)
2. Dose it have quite start up so dose not alert animals?
3. Wide angle to catch the action?
4. What zoom to get in close?
5. Easy to down load?
6. Enough life to last 3 weeks in the field with out change over memory?
7. Light enough to carry as an every day item.
8. Will it work in low light

Your help and advise would be great.
Brand?
Model?
Price?

Regards Cameron

Forget video 8 or SD.
Go for an HD camera.

We use several models from differet makers. And right now my favourite is a Sony HDR CX550. This has an internal memory of 64 GB, and you can add another 64GB SD card to it.

At the highest resolution, this will give you a total time of over 8 hours. You can also carry additional batteries for it, and may be an additional SD card if you are going to be making a lot of footage.

All cameras make a slight sound as they are turned on, but I suspect it is not enough to scare any animal at normal distance.

You can get an additional lense that gives you a wide angle should you wish, as well as an additional lense that increases the zoom by about 40%.

No requirements to load anything in this one.

Low light is a problem with all video cameras. If you have SOME light, your footage should be fine. But, as the light increases, the quality gets better.

Saeed,

I checked the Sony model in the B&H catalog, it seems to be a very capable camera. I see there is also a near-identical Sony HDR XR550 with 240 GB internal hard drive for around $200 more.

An alternative might be a DSLR with video capability. I see from the photography forum you have acquired a Canon 7D. I just bought this camera, haven't done any wildlife with it yet but have taken clips of flowers, birds and so forth around the yard. The sharpness, definition and colors are just stunning.

The 7D is going to be over the $1,800 limit by the time you add a lens or two. The T2I Rebel has about the same video specifications and is around $900 with a 15-85 lens. Add (for example) the Canon EF70-300 4-5.6 image stabilized lens (not an L series but a decent lens) and total would still be under $1,500.

With a 32 GB CF card this camera should give around four hours of video. With a couple of cards (and maybe erasing any bad clips along the way) there should be enough memory for most hunts.

As I'm sure you've found from using your 7D there are some tradeoffs with DSLR/video cameras compared to video only (focusing and XLR inputs for example). I'm not totally sold on the concept compared to a good video camera. However the DSLRs excel in convenience, image quality, and low-light performance.

On our last trip to Africa my wife and I toted (in addition to rifles and hunting gear) two Canon XH-A1 video cameras along with microphones and tripods, plus another bag with Nikon still cameras, flashes, lenses, and laptop. We managed to fit the camera gear in carry-on but dragging the stuff through airports got old quickly.

After seeing some of the results from the 7D my wife said, "You mean on our next trip we could take two of these and two or three lenses and it would do the same job as all the gear we dragged around last time?"

Not quite the same, but pretty close! I'd be curious to hear your views on the 7D once you've experimented with video mode a bit.

Dave Anderson

Dave,

There is no SLR right now which can compete with a dedicated video camera as far as video is concerned. Especially for wildlife.

i personally do not like video cameras with a hard disk. I think ones with flash memory are less liable to break.

I have taken quite a bit of video with Canon 7D, and frankly, unless you are dealing with relatively stationary subejects, the results are not very good.

There is a lot of trailing in movement, and of course auto focussing is non existence.

From the sound of it, you and your wife will not be happy with the results of an SLR for video.

You really have no choice but to have bth an SLR and a dedicated video camera.

The quality from the small video cameras with AVCHD is absolutely stunning. And if you are using Window 7 you can view the footage in Windows.

But, the sad part is none of these small cameras have manual focus. And as you well know, for wildlife and hunting this is a must have.

I see that several makers are coming out with new gear for this year. Hopefully a new small camera will come out with manual focus.

Saeed,

Good point about the relative reliability of hard disk versus flash memory.

At the 2010 SHOT Show I chatted with a couple of professional videographers in the press room. I mentioned I used external hard disk drives with RAID technology for editing and file storage, and sometimes carried the drive in a padded case for use on location with a laptop.

They strongly advised against the practice. In fact they said to keep the drive on a shelf and not even move it unless absolutely necessary. I'm sure the Sony hard drive is protected against shock and other damage as well as possible, and I do like the high capacity, but I agree hard disks are inherently less reliable.

I'm still using '90s technology with mini-DV tapes. I recognize the format has shortcomings but I like the overall image quality and relative security. At the end of each day's hunt I transfer the data from tape to laptop hard drive. I keep the original tapes as backup.

At home I store the data on at least two external hard drives and then store the original tapes at a different location. Probably I should use one of the commercial file backup services instead (or in addition!).

Also totally agree with the amazing image quality of small HD video cameras. On the African trip I mentioned we hunted with our friends Roy & Suzi Huntington (Roy is my editor at American Handgunner).

Roy had a little HD Canon (don't recall the model) and got some fabulous video. In editing I could see no difference in quality between it and the video from my XH-A1s which cost about five times as much.

Of course the small cameras give up a lot of manual control, which is important to me, but on the other hand they are so compact and lightweight. A more versatile, bigger and heavier camera doesn't do much good if it's left in the truck or back at the lodge.

I think the DSLR/video concept has incredible potential though there is still a long way to go. Accessories such as those from Zacuto overcome most of the handling and focus issues, but if you have to add five or six pounds of accessories it kind of defeats the "convenience" factor. Plus there are still the shutter issues when panning or on moving subjects.

I'm sure these issues will be addressed. Despite the disadvantages, the concept of hooking up a long lens and shooting 18 megapixel wildlife stills, then flicking a switch and shooting video, is very exciting. Not to mention being able to use some of the specialized lenses such as macro, fisheye, and tilt/shift.

Very much appreciate your advice. I know from the photography forum and your online videos you have a lot of knowledge of various cameras and how to use them.

To cameronaussie I'd say there's never been a better time to get into video. Current technology is nearly incredible (and even more incredibly it gets better all the time).

Whatever you buy is going to start becoming obsolescent rather quickly, just as with computers, but the important thing is to start doing it.

Video is a different skill from still photography, and if you have done a lot of still photography you likely have habits to overcome. When I looked at some of my first videos I realized I basically was stringing together video clips which might as ell have been stills.

One way to learn is watching movies or TV shows you like and paying attention to camera angles, movements, and cuts.

Good luck with whichever camera you choose, and to Saeed, thanks again for your comments.

Dave,

The quality from some of the latest AVCHD cameras is way above anything an HDV camera can produce.

Sadly, most people seem to want their footage put on DVDs, which really defeats the whole high definition objective.

I do quite a bit of video capture for friends from DV tapes, and try to output the footage onto both a DVD and converted to WMV HD. They love the WMV footage much better, especially now they can connect their computers directly to their HD TVs.

Also, lately I have been copying these files onto an HD media server. And one can connect this to the HD TV and watch the footage without a computer.

Great results.

I was never a fan of RAID. It was necessary in the past because the hard disks available then were relatively slow, and one can experience dropped frames.

Now, even the normal run of the mill hard disks are fast enough to capture any footage without dropped frames.

I build my own editing systems, and generally pick the best available components. For the hard disks I normally pick enterprise disks with 64MB of cache.

And I use a dedicated tape deck to capture from made by Sony.

The real beauty of the solid state cameras is that one can watch teh footage immediately.

We are in Switzerland hiking up in the Alps right now.

Yesterday I took some footage up in the mountains, and was able to watch it with my family and friends when we got back to the hotel.

This morning I went handgliding, and took a Sony HX1 digital camera up with me. This takes great photos, as well as great video. Of course, it is no where near as good with video as a dedicated video camera, but still great.

As soon as we got back to the hotel, we were able to watch both the photos and videos.

I will upload some of the footage next week when I get back home. Some of you might enjoy it.

Saeed,

Thanks for taking time to post your comments. A man on vacation with his family shouldn't have to take time out for messages to strangers, but I do appreciate it.

Like your photos of Switxerland. I have a cousin who lives there, she married a Swiss citizen and they own a charming little farm. My wife and I hope to visit them someday.

The AVCHD system is excellent as are the Sony and Panasonic cameras. I'm also planning to try the new Canon XF300 which records to CF card (two slots provided) and has similar operating controls to the XH-A1s I'm used to.

The current hard drives with RAID I am using are much better than my older standard hard drives, but it may be they are simply better made rather than a result of the RAID feature.

At present I'm satisfied with them, at least enough not to change. Are the disks you mention the "hybrid" variety? I've been following developments on these hybirds which combine a traditional spinning platter hard drive with a solid-state cache.

There seems to be lots of development in solid-state device (SSD) drives. Some articles suggest their cost is going to drop dramatically over the next year or two, making their cost of storage similar to traditional drives.

I'm sure the demand exists. I like the idea mainly from a reliability and durability aspect. At least it seems logical than "no moving parts" should be more reliable than "fast moving parts".

Traditional drives seem to have topped out at 15,000 rpm. I recall when we were told there would be 20,000 rpm disks soon but so far it hasn't happened. However the traditional hard disk makers aren't going to just fade away without a fight and likely have some new developments coming.

Of course as soon as the hardware makers give us seemingly unlimited memory the software people will come up with new applications which gobble even more disk space. Not complaining, mind you.

DVDs are definitely the weak link in the chain at present. I don't do event videos commercially but do make videos of reunions and weddings for the family. They always want DVDs since people mostly have DVD players at present. The drop in quality about breaks my heart.

Computer direct to HD TV is great for those who have it but at present not many of my family do. I'm thinking of adding a Blu-Ray burner for those have players for them.

I need to apologize to the original poster for shifting the direction of the thread he started, and will post one more message to him.

I don't participate in forums often, don't have the time plus I have utterly no tolerance for the rudeness and lack of civility all too prevalent on the internet. I've enjoyed this discussion very much and wish you and your family a very pleasant holiday.

Dave Anderson

cameronaussie,

I should apologize for changing directions of this thread rather than responding to your original question. I doubt the discussion of the relative merits of different hard drives helped you much!

I should have asked what sort of wildlife photography you had in mind. Generally speaking if you can't get close to the animals you can expect to spend more on long lenses. If you can get close, in a blind for example, or on a photo safari in a park, you can get great results for not a lot of money.

You didn't mention image stabilization on your list but that goes without saying these days. I mostly always use a tripod but most find it too inconvenient.

Not everyone agrees with my approach but I prefer to either hunt or take video, not to try and do both. If I'm hunting the only camera I'll have is a little Nikon Coolpix in a belt pouch, for taking stills after the shot.

If I'm doing video I leave my rifle behind and follow whoever is hunting, and I'll have a rather bulky camera with full manual controls on a medium-weight tripod. Or if I just want wildlife video I'll set up in a blind.

Regarding your point about having enough memory for three weeks in the field, with a camera which accepts SD or CF cards you can carry as much memory as you like. Some of the cards do get a bit expensive. I like to have a laptop in camp to download the day's take. I don't feel comfortable until it is stored in at least two places.

I've never had animals take alarm at the sound of starting or running a video camera (didn't get close enough maybe) though I have had them respond to the click of an SLR still camera.

The Sony model Saeed suggested is a good one and will within your budget, I see it listing at around $1,200. Most of these small cameras don't do audio very well, as the microphones are small and they pick up sounds of handling and operating the camera.

If sound is important to you and the camera has a microphone input consider a shotgun-style external mike. When the audio is critical to me I use one or two shotgun mikes on camera plus a digital portable field recorder.

Don't forget about editing software. If what you want is a nice record of your hunt to bring back memories you can do so with fairly simple software, such as is sometimes supplied with computers and videocameras. If you want to put together something to impress your friends you may need to spend more time learning to use the software.

The iMovie supplied with Macs is actually not too bad, at least it is much improved over the first versions I used eight or ten years ago. I use Final Cut but for most uses the cost (in both money and in learning the program) isn't jsutified.

Hope this helps, and hope you enjoy using whichever camera you buy.

Dave Anderson

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Anderson:
Saeed,

Thanks for taking time to post your comments. A man on vacation with his family shouldn't have to take time out for messages to strangers, but I do appreciate it.

Like your photos of Switxerland. I have a cousin who lives there, she married a Swiss citizen and they own a charming little farm. My wife and I hope to visit them someday.

The AVCHD system is excellent as are the Sony and Panasonic cameras. I'm also planning to try the new Canon XF300 which records to CF card (two slots provided) and has similar operating controls to the XH-A1s I'm used to.

The current hard drives with RAID I am using are much better than my older standard hard drives, but it may be they are simply better made rather than a result of the RAID feature.

At present I'm satisfied with them, at least enough not to change. Are the disks you mention the "hybrid" variety? I've been following developments on these hybirds which combine a traditional spinning platter hard drive with a solid-state cache.

There seems to be lots of development in solid-state device (SSD) drives. Some articles suggest their cost is going to drop dramatically over the next year or two, making their cost of storage similar to traditional drives.

I'm sure the demand exists. I like the idea mainly from a reliability and durability aspect. At least it seems logical than "no moving parts" should be more reliable than "fast moving parts".

Traditional drives seem to have topped out at 15,000 rpm. I recall when we were told there would be 20,000 rpm disks soon but so far it hasn't happened. However the traditional hard disk makers aren't going to just fade away without a fight and likely have some new developments coming.

Of course as soon as the hardware makers give us seemingly unlimited memory the software people will come up with new applications which gobble even more disk space. Not complaining, mind you.

DVDs are definitely the weak link in the chain at present. I don't do event videos commercially but do make videos of reunions and weddings for the family. They always want DVDs since people mostly have DVD players at present. The drop in quality about breaks my heart.

Computer direct to HD TV is great for those who have it but at present not many of my family do. I'm thinking of adding a Blu-Ray burner for those have players for them.

I need to apologize to the original poster for shifting the direction of the thread he started, and will post one more message to him.

I don't participate in forums often, don't have the time plus I have utterly no tolerance for the rudeness and lack of civility all too prevalent on the internet. I've enjoyed this discussion very much and wish you and your family a very pleasant holiday.

Dave Anderson

Dave,

The hard disks I am usung are not hybrid, but normal platter types which are very fast.

I have not experienced any dropped frames for God knows how long now.

SSDs are extremely fast - I am currently using a Sony VPCZ117 laptop, which has a 256 GB SSD. It is at least 4 times faster thann any hard disk I have ever tried, in both reads and writes.

Sadly, they are not big enough for video work.

I used to use tape backup, then changed over to DROBO PRO. You might wish to have a look at this, as you can use up to 8 seperate hard disks - I use 2TB disks in mine.

You can set it so as even if two seperate hard disks fail, you still have all your data.

I tried it, and it does work. But, like RAOD, it takes quite a ong time to rebuild the data.

Also, as I am gradually upgrading to USB 3.0 external hard drives - a LOT faster than either DROBO PRO or USB 2.0 drives - I am backing all my footage onto 3 seperate backups. Some of our old footage is almost priceless, and I do not wish to loose it.

A while back I found some VHS tapes we used many years ago, and captured them. I converted the clips to WMVs for my friends, and they absolutely love them.

The quality, though, has left a lot to be desired.

If you are getting a Blu Ray drive, make sure you get one of the latest ones.

Some fo the earlier models would not read CDs at all, and even some DVS were difficult for them to read.

the canon AVCHD cameras are great. I also have a 7D. the files from the 7d are a little less forgiving when working with editing software. only the latest releases will handle them well.

on a side note, anyone created AVCHD discs? basically DVDs that play on a bluray player with bluray quality? DVDs fill up quick, but the quality is outstanding and you dont need a bluray burner on your comp.

I used DVD architect 5 for this. pretty cool.