Not to stir the pot or dispute your claim about poor shooting and so on,

how about the idea that some one took a careless shot at the doe or a sibling to this animal and this someone did not make sure that there was nothing behind?

It´s not uncommon to have bullets pass through and with any animal that tend to live in groups, they are constantly moving ie what was a clear background a second ago is no longer.

Just saying, not knowing however since neither of us was there at the time I guess either scenario could be correct.

/Chris

I'll stir the pot. It doesn't matter what you hit them with,PLACEMENT IS KING! This poor critter appears to have been the result of collateral damage. It may suprise many that even when hit with 375 or larger, many animals including deer may run off and even survive for days or months only to die a slow death.

I have taken many head shots on exotics such as Fallow, Axis, and even Scimitar Oryx. BUT, I will not take a shot farther than 65yds. I know at that distance EXACTLY where my bullet prints and I use very small caliber many times rimfire so as not to incur injury or death to an unintended animal.


Don't hate the head shots.

Hate the slob shooters and hunters that take unnecessary risks and irresponsible shots!

Andy

Head and neck shots produce spectacular results and destroy very little meat. I consider myself a reasonably competent hunter and feel that I am plenty capable of taking such shots, but I rarely do. I have seen the results far too many times of head shots that were just a couple of inches out of the "sweet spot".

It is up to each of us as individuals and as concerned sportsmen to do our best to make a kill as quickly and cleanly as possible. Admittedly a heart/lung shot animal may run for a while before going down, they won't live for days or weeks slowly starving to death.

One aspect that has always amazed me about fellow hunters who are proponents of head/neck shots, is that nearly to a person, they will not try a head shot especially on an actual trophy buck or bull.

Many years ago, we were taught to never shoot an animal in the head.

But, having hunted for a few years, and sometimes getting no chance except a head shot, I have taken quite a number of animals with head shots, including many cape buffalo.

In fact, whenever I get the chance, I prefer a head or neck shot.

My guess Saeed is that you are taking head or neck shots at reasionable ranges and with guns that you are highly familiar with. Takingh those same type shots on a white tail or similar sized animal at 200 yards or more, with a rifle that the shooter shoots only a few times annually is definitely not in the same league.

That is true, I onluy take head and neck shots when I am absolutely certain of making the shot count.

One year in Zimbabwe, we somehow upset Walter, and he tried to get back at us.

He refused to make us a BBQ - unless I shot an impala in the neck! He said he is not willing to clear up the shot meat, and if we wanted a BBQ, we have to provide him with a neck shot impala.

We all enjoyed the look on his face when we brought him back an impala killed with a neck shot!

I think a head or neck shot is probably the best and quickest way to kill an animal.

From inspection it looked like a headshot taken side on. Neither me nor anyone else who has authority to shoot this land has been out hunting recently, so I assume this is poaching or the deer travelled from neighboring land, but it is quite unlikely.

Title should be "Why I don't like poor marksmanship."

One can make the same argument for bowhunting with animals subsequently harvested with abscesses in the hindquarters etc etc etc

I head (sometimes neck) shoot all culls. If I can't put a head shot on a spike, I won't take him.

And sometimes "Shit Happens" to even seasoned hunters. My father in law (in his 70s), who has hunted nearly 60 years has gut shot several bucks over the last few years. Pisses me off, but what am I suposed to do with that? Shit happens.

Heck some one could have taken a good shot at the Deer and had it deflected by an unseen branch,and yes that will deflect a bullet.

I think the main reason we speak against head shots is not that a good marksman couldn't make the shot... It's that the deer is constantly moving his head...

You are shooting at a tangerine or an egg that moves around constantly...

So.. Sure... You a good shot could easily hit that same tangerine out at the range when it's sitting still and you have plenty of time to make your shot...

but now - move it around... Left, right, up, down... on the end of that 2' neck... where a shot straight into the ear becomes a shot straight across the nose or mouth or a clean miss 1 second later....

For example.. I had a doe looking straight at me across a clearing... I was up in a tree stand... I was holding center of the chest for the shot... Right as I pulled the trigger - she dropped her head to the ground and I put the shot straight into her spine at the base of her neck.... but if I would have been holding on the neck or at the base of her head - I might have shot completely over her head or maybe blown a hole in her ear, nose, whatever...

So... Yeah - I believe you could easily hit a coke can an orange, or an egg all day long at 100 yards out at the range.... but now start swinging it around randomly on the end of a 2' stick... It's not nearly as sure of a thing...

Thanks

A shot at any body part can be off and maim/wound/disfigure a deer.

Happens.

The solution is practice. Because where you shoot is not as important as how well you shoot.

that has to be the worst video clip I have ever watched!!

It was like the "Blair Witch Project" of "hunting clips". I was getting dizzy!

To small of a target at to great of a distance. It is one thing to hit a paper target at that range but never at something that only has to slightly move to create a nightmare like this.

quote:

Originally posted by Duckear:
A shot at any body part can be off and maim/wound/disfigure a deer.

Happens.

The solution is practice. Because where you shoot is not as important as how well you shoot.

While it's true... It's a whole lot less likely with a solid heart/lung shot... "Miss" your point of aim by 4" and it's still a solid, quickly fatal heart/lung shot...

Now.. Say you are holding right under/behind the ear... 1" back might be a clear miss or cutting some muscle on the back side of the spine.. 1" forward is straight into the mouth/nose/eyes.. 1 1/2" up is ears and antlers... 1" down and it's a blown up wind pipe...

While I recognize that many many hunters have beaned many many deer... I have personally seen many folks make a terrible mess of deer just like in this video.... and worse - never get out of the stand to track the thing and finish it off... and the deer dies a couple days/weeks later from an infection or starvation....

I have heard the coyotes when they find those deer...

Personally, in my experience.. It's not about having lots of practice shooting small, field shooting, or whatever... It's pure luck of whether the deer moves it's head...

Thanks

Having just run across this thread, it seems appropriate to interject another perspective.

Certainly none here would condemn the use of head shots on turkey as currently practiced with shotguns. Yes, it is not the same as using a single projectile firearm. None the less, this leads to a different, albeit, regional approach.

From a deer hunting perspective, it is not unheard of along the Gulf Coast for some hunters to use a "saturation fire" approach by deliberately targeting the head/neck area. Hunters that subscribe to this method often use 3" and 3.5" loads of #4B with 41 and 54 pellets respectively.

Those who practice this method usually hunt from a ground stand along abandoned logging roads in briar and vine laden pine plantations where game recovery often depends on putting game down in its tracks.

Good on your for putting down that poor creature.

We're all killing animals at the end of the day, but one can at least have the decency to do a proper job.

Get a better shot...get closer...get the angle...if you can't don't. That's why they call it hunting. Sometimes you go home with a shot in your head you could have taken. You can be proud of that too.

The way I see it, the head shot offers a safer margin for error, because the botched head shot normally results in a dropped animal, that then gets up to run. If you are close enough, and keep ready watch over the downed beast you should be able to shoot again it as soon as it tries to get up.
A botched shot behind the shoulder that leads to a gut wound is certainly no kinder on the animal, and you generally have less chance of recovering those.
I take a lot of head shots, unless I have something in front of me that I want to put on the wall, or I know I won’t have another opportunity, I avoid heart lung shots.
To be honest, my wounding rate is extremely low, over the last 20 years I can hardly recall any animals lost to botched head shots. Only one comes to mind, and that was precisely because I didn’t give it my customary “reload and watch it”…The traditional “behind the shoulder” shots far outweigh them, also because you tend to get those shots in sometimes difficult conditions.
Obviously you need to be %100 proficient with your rifle and use good judgment when head shooting.
I do a lot of deer culling and my preferred rig is a 6PPC target rifle with a NF 8-32 scope on it. Also, when you have a lot of carcasses to deal with it is much nicer not to have to work with gallons of churned up internal organs mixed with shit…
If I’m out stalking purely for the fun of it, I prefer the more traditional rifle and shooting technique, but when possible the head shot is just so much more efficient.

JonP:

"sometimes you go home with a shot in your head you could have taken. You can be proud of that too"

Well put.

That is the right mindset to be in on a hunt.

I intend head shooting to be useful in a culling, not hunting scenario.

I've personally heard 2 hunters say they take head shots when they are not sure about the shot because it will either be a miss or a hit.
A friend of mine helped track down a deer with a nose blown off by a guy who said he went for the head shot for that very reason.
I helped finish off a doe with a blown off jaw that came over from the neighboring property.

I don't believe I've heard of such problems with neck shots.

Wounding game is something that happens. Unfortunately. Shooting at game animals heads your asking for it. We should all strive to make clean kills with proper shot placement .

Absolutely no reason to take a head shot no matter how good a shot you are.

Head shots are for crocodiles.

quote:

Originally posted by RMc:
Having just run across this thread, it seems appropriate to interject another perspective.

Certainly none here would condemn the use of head shots on turkey as currently practiced with shotguns. Yes, it is not the same as using a single projectile firearm. Nonetheless, this leads to a different, albeit, regional approach.

From a deer hunting perspective, it is not unheard of along the Gulf Coast for some hunters to use a "saturation fire" approach by deliberately targeting the head/neck area. Hunters that subscribe to this method often use 3" and 3.5" loads of #4B with 41 and 54 pellets respectively.

Those who practice this method usually hunt from a ground stand along abandoned logging roads in briar and vine laden pine plantations where game recovery often depends on putting game down in its tracks.

Cognitive Dissonance?

I have killed only one deer with a headshot and although it went well, I will not do it again simply because there was too much margin for error for my liking. I am a careful shooter my nature and I was not happy with myself afterwards even though I was successful. (Standing offhand shot at about 50-60 metres) I solved the problem with the shot but I decided this situation would be a pass in the future.

As an aside, I work with a guy who told me only the other day that the last two deer he shot for a headshot and caught them in the lower jaw and lost both animals despite a copious bloodtrail. I was a bit horrified to tell you the truth. Two in a row as well.
This he tried to blame on the bullet! I told him it's not the bullet's fault if he bloody missed...

Neck shots on the other hand are a quite different story. A neck shot is a perfectly viable shot, drops them on the spot and I cant see why people consider them 'dodgy', quite the opposite in my opinion. They are a reliable and spectacular killer.
And with any kind of discussion about shot placement, we assume a level of competance for the shooter and the neck is a fine even for an average shot I would have thought.

After hunting for 60 of my 65 years, I'm glad to hear a number of people responding on this thread that there is absolutely no reason to ever take a brain shot, which is what we're talking about, on a big game animal unless it's dangerous game charging you. The brain is just too darn small and with the head constantly moving it is just not an acceptable place to aim no matter how proficient you are on a motionless paper target when a properly constructed bullet of a caliber sufficient to do the job can be placed in the much larger heart/lung area!

Perhaps coincidence, I stumbled across this article - a timely one at that.

Let us journey down this road...

Picture an old man in 18th century garb, a long 20 bore fowler at hand and a fine morning afield. Then a doe, interupting the stillness and offering only a moment in which to launch the leaden sphere. The front and only sight is clear, the cock - already drawn - snaps forward, sharp flint to steel hammer, white smoke billows...

http://home.insightbb.com/~bspen/PerfectDoeHunt.html

Recently I chanced to read a couple of articles on squirrel and hog hunting. For some reason this thread came to mind.

Could it be that many who abhor the idea of head shots on one member of the ungulate family are advocates of head shots on other ungulates?
That is the Noble Whitetail vs the Lowly Hog!

Could it be that many who would never dream of subjecting the wide eyed Doe to the possibility of ignoble death by starvation from a blown off jaw, would not think twice of possibly inflicting the same fate for a member of the Rodent family? Yes, those scampering rodents with designer tails - Squirrels.
Oh how we exalt the "sporting marksmanship" of head shots with our rimfire or air rifles!

What then, I ask, is the difference? That is, other than the pedestal upon which we Humans place most of the larger game species we hunt.

I have the opportunity to cull whitetail deer on MLD Level III ranches in Texas. I neck shoot most deer as this shot provides ample opportunity for a quick kill at varying distances and angles. I have taken a number of head shots over the years at rages up to 100 yards but the margin for error is greater. I rarely if ever take the traditional behind the shoulder shot as follow ups can be time consuming when dealing with large numbers. My culling rigs of choice are:
1) Sako 22-250 with Nightforce 8x32 NP-2DD reticle
2) Remington 5R in .308 with Nightforce 5x22 NP-2DD reticle

When hunting --not culling-- Situation will dictate the shot, however, I like neck shots or high shoulder shots. Both drop animals in their tracks. If no other shot is available I will take a behind the shoulder.