I haven't posted in this part of the forum yet but I have an emergency.

Wyatt is 7 1/2 years old, started to slow down a bit last year and has been in a serious slide for the worse in the last two months.

He was a very, very high energy lab. His litter mate sister was the national pointing lab champ many years ago (from what the breeder told me). Like all of our dogs, he's the best companion a man could ask for.

A vet found a heart murmur a month ago. His retreiving desire, which was insatiable, has been very curtailed this summer. He'll chase it out a few times and then just plod back.

This weekend we went camping, he had reasonable energy and did his best to fetch everything and dig up some rocks from the river, an activity that I usually discourage.

He has barely gotten up the past two days. Very, very lethargic but still wags his tail when we call his name. His eyes are bright.

He's at the vet this morning. We asked for a full battery of tests, x-rays, heart check, etc.

Any ideas or suggestions? He's a great pal and I want the best for him.

It sure doesn't sound good. I hope it is a simple fix.

Hi mt Al,

It sounds like you are doing the very best for your boy.

My suggestion would be this: Trust your gut feeling. If this is your regular vet and he/she knows your dog's history and you feel comfortable in their abilities then you will feel better in any decisions that might need to be made given the worst case scenario. If you are uneasy, and it is within your means, sometimes a 2nd opinion is warranted.

A couple years ago my 8 yr old chocolate lab got the diagnosis of advanced liver disease based on her presented symptoms. I got sent home with a bag of liver disease dog food and maybe 2 weeks left with my girl. Something did not feel right and it wasn't denial that I might be losing my dog. She turned 11 this last Memorial Day Weekend and is still with me, spoiled as ever. Some called me crazy for taking her for that second opinion...oh well.

I truly hope that all goes well with your dog. Let us know how it turns out. Take care.

The vet just called and said that his heart is enlarged. They're bringing over an EKG-vet specialist for a closer look.

Internet search on enlarged hearts doesn't look good. They have decent meds, it sounds like it depends on how advanced the enlargement is.

I will bring him to a second vet in a jiffy if it seems like we should, I appreciate your comments champ.

mt Al,

Hoping for good news and that the meds will work out.

This is way too far from you to do your lab any good but for those who might face such a dilemma, need a superior first, second, or third opinion, and live in NE Texas, SE Ok, South Arkansas or the Northern half of Louisiana I cannot say enough good things about Dr. Daniel Core, 2633 Viking Dr., Bossier City, La. Phone 318 746 6465. He is absolutely top notch with a new clinic, and state of the art equipment. All of that while being at least as reasonable as most other Vet charges. I know of several dogs that at least 2 other Vets had said would need to be put down that lived long and useful lives after Dr. Daniel operated on them. As someone once said about a football player, there may be better ones around, but it won't take long to call the role. He was recommended to me by a good (and sadly now deceased) Vet friend, Dr. Frank Jackson of Shreveport (when one good Vet brags on another, it pays to pay attention), who said that he was as good as they get just out of school, and that was nearly 20 years ago. Dr. Daniel Core continues to improve everyday. BTW, he wakes up thinking hunting. Not that it makes any difference, but if you're going to use him, email me and you can use me as a reference.

So...he has a huge mass on one of his tricuspid valves. The mass is so big they have no idea how he's alive. It almost fills his ventricular chamber and flops back and forth with each beat of his heart.

They don't know if its cancer or a bacterial thing. They took a biopsy of some lymph nodes to check for cancer and, in the mean time, are hitting him with very high doses of antibiotics in case its an infection.

His blood work shows absolutely nothing abnormal. They had two vets, one a board certified cardiac vet. I saw the xrays and pictures of the ultrasound.

I always knew that Wyatt was all heart, now its been confirmed. They expect him to kick the bucket any day if the thing peels off his heart or to slow down dramatically as his body fights the lack of blood flow.

He's much quieter than usuall, but still ripped up one of my daughter's stuffed animals last night for old time's sake.

Thanks for your thoughts, this is really aweful. We're just going to keep him happy and make sure he doesn't suffer. If they can treat the growth maybe he'll retreive a few ducks this fall.

Al,

Sad to hear and I hope there is a reasonable solution for your beloved friend. If not, just make his days comfortable and happy. All the best....

What was his blood pressure?
Did they put him on any meds to ease the heart's work load?
Diet change to low sodium?
A tricuspid valve mass is bad and valvular endocarditis carries a better prognosis than cancer.

AC Recurve,

I don't know what his blood pressure is. They did a full CBC and oddly everything looks very normal. They're going to do another full CBC to recheck for signs of cancer or infection.

They didn't put him on other meds to reduce his heart's workload. Thanks and I will ask about that quickly.
Can you tell me what valvular endocarditis is? Is that an infectious growth vs. a cancerous growth? There is some hope that its an infectious growth BUT that if the treatment is effective that it will cast off "stuff" that may cause a heart attack.

Thanks for the advise on other meds.

mt Al-

Our thoughts, hopes and prayers are with you and Wyatt.

God Speed!!!

quote:

Originally posted by mt Al:
AC Recurve,

I don't know what his blood pressure is. They did a full CBC and oddly everything looks very normal. They're going to do another full CBC to recheck for signs of cancer or infection.

They didn't put him on other meds to reduce his heart's workload. Thanks and I will ask about that quickly.
Can you tell me what valvular endocarditis is? Is that an infectious growth vs. a cancerous growth? There is some hope that its an infectious growth BUT that if the treatment is effective that it will cast off "stuff" that may cause a heart attack.

Thanks for the advise on other meds.

It's not unusual for blood work to be normal in these cases. Valvular endocarditis is a relatively rare disease of a heart valve. In dogs, it is mostly cause by bacterial colonization of a valve or by the inflammation caused by attempted bacterial colonization of a valve. Here's a link to a case report...it's in medical-ese, but understandable. I wish you and your dog well.

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=546447

Hi mtAL,

Just checking in with you and still pullin' for Wyatt. Take care.

AC, thanks for the article. Tough to wade through the medical-ese but it makes sense. It would be very nice if there was a way to have early detection and intervention. We'll have to wait for wear-able star trek sensors, which aren't that far away.

champ, thanks for the kind words. He's really doing well the past 24 hours. My wife has been giving him the massive doses of anti-biotics three times a day. He wanted to play fetch last night and has started to..um..clean his private parts once again. This morning he was up for a walk sniffing the neighbor dog's butt. This is a huge change for last weekend and early this week.

I thank God for giving us the gifts of dogs to brighten our lives and for giving Wyatt some healing and joy. I keep praying that his healing continues.

Thanks very much for comments and concerns.

mtAL,

Always glad to hear good news!!

I found an old blurb from a magazine that I thought you and your family might enjoy...

"Dogs in our lives"

We aren't house-proud. If we were, we wouldn't abide the scratches on the door frame, the holes in the screen, the darkened shine of worn spots on the chair. We would wince at the mottled carpet and fret at the hair clinging to our clothes.

We don't. If anything, we lovers of dogs are a tolerant lot, finding greater value in the unabashed affection of our friends than in immaculate sofas. Shoes can be replaced, but heroic retrievers are timeless.

Without dogs, our houses are cold receptacles for things. Dogs make a fire warmer with their curled presence. They wake us, greet us, protect us, and ultimately carve a place in our hearts and our history. On reflection, our lives are often referenced in parts defined by the all-too-short lives of our dogs.

--Paul Fersen, Author

Enjoy your weekend.

Why didnt vet get an ultrasound as soon as he heard the murmur?My13y/o setter had same symptoms;murmur,U/S next dayshowed mitral valve endocarditis.Industrial strength antibioticsX6WEEKS at least.no murmur now but she hunts only3-4hrs now that shes 14+.stay on antibiotics 6wks&repeat ultrasound&hope for no valve scarring.might just have your friend a good bit longer.BEST,kim

KimR,

At the initial test the vet recommended that we have heart tests "sometime" but that the murmur wasn't that bad (6 weeks ago). I share responsibility for not getting tests earlier, makes me sick. We planned on scheduling the tests for September. However, we had no idea nor were we told how serious the problem was. We were told the murmur was a 1 out of 6. The hospital vet told us a 4 out of 6.

We've decided to switch from our travelling vet to bringing him to the facility for regular visits.

He has been on IV antibiotics for about 5 days, 3x per day, massive doses. He's doing amazingly well the past two days, thank God. He's almost reached "annoying" status again, which is what we want! My mother (68 and loves our dog) bought him several new toys which perked him right up.

Can you tell me what specific antibiotic your dog was on? Did you do IV antibiotics or oral? Did you switch from IV or oral? Any details on your dog's treatment would be helpful. The vet recommended today that we do exactly what you're suggesting, getting him on massive oral doses of antibiotics and do an ultrasound at the end. They're also going to do an EKG now as a base line and will do another EKG in the future, along with the ultrasound, at the end of his treatment.

Also, would you be able to PM me your vet's contact information? I'd like to give it to my vet if possible. It does sound like our vet is on the right track, but the more help the better.

Thanks very much, any specifics would be very helpful.

One message that rings true here! Health issues with our canine family members progress at a much faster rate than they do with us. We tend (myself included) to set up time frames associated with Human care. This is sorely inadequate for our canines. I had a golf ball size mass in my Gordon Setter. The surgeon was very pushy and shared no details or aspects of the surgery or treatment options post surgery. I was very put off and left to seek other care. This took 2 weeks until the new surgeon was found and the procedure scheduled. The golf ball size mass was then football sized. Instead of a lobectomy they did a hemispherectomy.

Long story concluded now a-days I'm very agressive with diagnosis and treatment. The care of my dogs never waits. I'm not being critical, just bolstering the necessity of quick decisive treatment by relating one of my experiences.

mtAl,dont remember IIRC it was an amoxicillin+clavunate combo,1Gm2xda.doesnt make any difference.treatment is empirical-gets better stay with it.but STAY on it for 6wks+.dont want vegitations to get resistant-thats when you get into trouble&sounds like the growths are significant.have to eradicate them completely,just like humans.the vegitations are bacteria which have set up housekeeping on a heart valve&showering his whole body with bugs. dont want spread to other valves,lung ,brain etc.sounds like youre on the right track-stay with it.Get another U/S after 6 wks-if any growth visible stay on antibios.if you have any questions PM,or call.504-888-1008,or post here.BEST,kim

KimR,

Thanks much, I'll forward this info to the vet. They are putting him on 6 months (yes, months) of antibiotics. Specifically, 2 pills, 2x per day of 500 mg of Cephalexin. They did an EKG yesterday and did an US a few days ago and will check him again in 6 weeks.

Not being a pharmacologist, is this the right stuff? A google search reveals that it fights bacterial infections in the body.

He's been very, very hungry since we started his treatments. Also thirstier than ever for good old fresh toilet water. We of course point him towards his fresh water bowl.

Thanks again very much

mt Al,there are lots of antibios that might work.if he getting better-its working!must be a good size vegetation for 6 mos therapy but you dont want this thing coming back.y'all are on the right track.just keephim on his med for the 6 mos.its easy to stop early&have a recurrence thats now resistant to the simpler antibiotics.stay the course&lets us know in 6 mos.too bad he'll miss a hunting season.BEST,kim

Hi mt Al,

How's Wyatt doing? Thought about him the other day as I was giving antiobiotics to my dog...

Hope all is well.