I was reading Austin Hunter's post and the responses regarding DDs. I am looking at purchasing one next June to hunt upland birds, waterfowl, and furred game, but it does get hot (over 100 degrees here) though the humidity tends to be low. I am also a long duration trail runner and want a dog that can run with me when temps are less than 80 degrees. I would like to have more feedback on the DD.

L-n-B,

I really can't add much more than was said in the thread you mentioned. I would suggest that you contact the local DD chapter and talk to a few breeders. In my experience, they will be more than happy to be honest and helpful. I affectionately call the DD organisation the Teutonic Eugenics Cult. The Canadian chapter at least is made up of Believers. They believe in the DD system and seem more interested in producing good hunting dogs than upping their sales volume. The DD breeders we've talked to wouldn't sell you a dog if they didn't think it was right for your needs. Or if they thought you weren't right for their dogs. Some of those conversations before we got our dog had a definite interview feel.

Good luck,
Dean

All my dog knows is heat so he thinks its normal.down here itll be in the high 80s w 80-90%humidity& hell run 45min-1hr about 3/4 throttle so he can really hit it for a cat,possum,rabbit.talk to a breeder in your latitudes&see what he thinks.

They are known as a "soft" dog. They do not tolerate extremes as well as other more hearty breeds. They are also more sensitive and require gentle handling and soft words.

quote:

Originally posted by The Shottist:
They are known as a "soft" dog. They do not tolerate extremes as well as other more hearty breeds. They are also more sensitive and require gentle handling and soft words.

Gee, I own one and know several others with one......they outrun every dog we ever hunt with......soft? Because they're smart enough not to need to be screamed at? Tell us more about our dogs, please.

I don't run DD's but I do run DJTs (GHTs) in the summer in Texas. I simply shave my guys down for the summer and let them regrow in the winter. I've got three dogs one smooth one broken and one bordering on rough. I shave all three down in the summer. It seems to really help with the heat.

quote:

They are known as a "soft" dog. They do not tolerate extremes as well as other more hearty breeds. They are also more sensitive and require gentle handling and soft words.

Its this kind of generalization that isn't very helpful. You can find every type of DD you can imagine but soft is not a word that comes to mind...and I have had the breed for 40+ years in both the US and Germany. They are a more dependent dog...a dog that likes to be with you/stay in touch...as opposed to an independent trial type of dog. They work birds, retrieve ducks/geese and I've seen a few drag small hogs out of the brush....soft isn't the word I would use to describe them.

Talk to breeders in the southern states. One breeder I would contact would be Kit Kritchlow in AZ...he guides bird hunters with his dogs, so they have to work well in all conditions.
http://arizonadd.com/ He is a no nonsense performance guy who demands good temperaments and trainability.

Good luck...and make sure you get your advice from folks that really know the breed.

Certain breeds are able to handle running and heat better than others, things to consider is their age, body build conditioning and temperment. That being said Dogs can only maintain their body temperature by cooling through their mouth, paws and to a certain extent their abdomen.
Heat collapse is deadly in dogs, it comes on quickly and when this happens the results is certain death or serious physical impairment and there is little anyone can do about it. I had an acquaintance who is a knowledgeable dog trainer running a dog and it was fine on one retrieve and then collapsed on the second, he was 20 minutes from a vet and the dog died shortly after getting to the vets office

Does that mean you shouldn't run a dog,no but make sure you know the symptoms, carry a supply of cold water to dose the dog down in the event it happens and always know where the local vet is. The symptoms sometimes are hard to detect on hard running togs until it is to late but heavy breeding with the tongue out head down and unwillingness to continue or a definite change in attitude, failure to respond to command or continuing doing what it was doing. If this occurs it is condition red.
Dogs are also subject to exercise induced collapse (EIC) which has similar symptoms but not as dangerous as Heat collapse
Now this is where breeding and genes come into play, dogs can be tested for EIC, better to chose parents who have clear EIC clearance since they will not pass it on to there puppies. Heat exhaustion is a composite of conditioning and over exercise in the wrong conditions. Here is a handy heat humidity chart to have http://www.usatoday.com/weather/wheat3.htm A history of the parents is very important and proper conditioning and know when to quite and pack it in

The other thing that I do with my dogs in the heat is I only run them early in the morning or later in the afternoon after it's started to cool. All three of my guys will take a time a out to jump in a cattle tank or a water trough if they get too hot.

They do it on their own and I'll throw a stick into a pond or a river every once in a while on a warmer day and let them chase it.

I don't let them hunt during the shank of the day if it's uncomfortably hot out, say 90 deg or hotter. Some dogs can't take that much.

Another point that I forgot to mention, if humidity is high getting a dog wet may worst en a dog that is on the edge or in heat exhaustion since cooling effect only comes from evaporation, no evaporation no cooling so the wet damp coat will work as a blanket preventing heat dissipation.Only a constant flow of water that is cooler than the dog's temperature (102 degree Normal)will help your pet

Thanks for all of the replies and the good advice about talking to the breeder and selecting one from a climate similar to mine.

Dave

quote:

Dogs are also subject to exercise induced collapse (EIC) which has similar symptoms but not as dangerous as Heat collapse

EIC is a breed specific condition to Labrador Retrievers.

I live in New Orleans. I have trained 7 labs, 2 standard poodles, and 5 english pointers that I have personal owned and too many to count that belong to friends. If you can run a lab or golden you can run a dd. Conditioning is the key, start early and allow several weeks to work up (6 weeks for full conditioning).

A dd will not handle heat like a english pointer, nethier will most other dog breeds. You would not expect a english pointer to retrieve ducks or geese in icey water. As I said I live and train in New Orleans, if I am ok in a long sleve shirt the dogs are good to go. Just use some common sense.

We had a vet speak at our yearly meeting a couple of years ago, he had just won two national open bird dog championships. He spoke on conditioning including heat problems. He said if the temp and humitiy = 140 a hard running dog could get in trouble, especialy if he was out of shape.

first aid:

rubbing alcohal on the foot pads and belly,

Haveing them lay in cool water, and drinking until they throw up the water,it allows for quick cooling of the inner core. They will do that if it is realy hot.

Do not hose the top of the dogs down, it traps heat, but running cool water over the head and under belly and inside the rear legs is good, so is running water over the head to cool the brain.

DD's or not soft, but have so much drive , some will kill themselves chaseing game (they don't quit), if conditons are dangerous and you got to get them back, don't let the chase deer or pigs when it is hot.

Short hairs and visla do well in the heat, but don't do as well in the cold water. (ya I know they will work in the cold water, its just not right).

Ask the breeder what their dogs are able to do only if the live down south. If they live up north they don't get enough warm weater for the dogs to get use to it and don't have a clue.



I ran two pups in a spring test in Tenn, last spring with temps almost in ,if not 90. They did not quit.

JD

J D,
Great advice and well said. I have a big problem conditioning dogs to run in the heat becasue I live in the northeast in the hills where we don't get ehough really warm weather to condition dogs for what they may ncounter when we get to the midwest in the early season. This past week, we've had a string of days above 90 (a lot for us) and I took advantage to push them a little on the road.
It is amazing how quickly you can see dogs adapt even after 4-5 days of opeating in higher heat.

Another fact folks may not be aare of but the tempeature and humidity at ground level in the CRP will be a lot higher than the ambient conditions. That thick grass traps the heat and moisture coming of the ground can raise humidity. Just because its only 70-75 degrees, it can be a lot warmer on the ground.

quote:

Originally posted by The Shottist:
They are known as a "soft" dog. They do not tolerate extremes as well as other more hearty breeds. They are also more sensitive and require gentle handling and soft words.

With all due respect, I don't know where you are coming from. I've owned GWP's since 1978. My current bitch is 13 years old. She is for the most part a kennel dog. Last friday, with the temperature 105* I felt a bit guilty. Let her out of the kennel. She took off like a bat out of hell as usual. I came inside. 20 minutes later, I see her running 1/2 mile away back towards the house. Into the pond for a quick swim, then runs up to the barn, drinks from the trough and runs back up to the house. If I had not let her in, she'd be out making the rounds again (as always). Could have more to do with heart. Never seen one requiring gentle words and handling. Sounds like bad genetics or a heavy handed handler.