What are the benefits and drawbacks to this.....besides making puppies?

Biggest drawback I know of is that it makes a lot of dogs inactive, comparatively speaking, and they put on extra weight.

Neutering male bird dogs to me is very important.

A male retriever neutered at less than a year of age limits the development of the blocky, masculine figure. To me thats a benefit as it allows for a leaner, rangier frame that is better able to cover long miles in an upland hunt scenario. Heavy square built labs don't hunt sage grouse all day.

Loosing or never developing the hormonal urge to fight or screw or pee on everything standing still is also important to me. I encourage my dogs to "be above," other dogs and that way they concentrate on the hunt and not what the other bowser is up to. The only thing I'd find less fun in the middle of a hunting trip that taking my dog to the vet for injuries resulting from a fight it taking myself to the vet for injuries I sustained from breaking up the fight.

I do not believe neutered male dogs are less active and gain weight. A dogs activity is a ratio to their owners and a dogs weight is a result of their calorie intake. If a dog burns more calories than it consumes,.........

We have way too many domestic pets in this nation and the hunting breeds blood lines have been so badly harmed because pet owners don't neuter. Unless there is a really compelling reason to promote this specific dogs line I'd neuter post haste.

We compete my dogs. If people see your dog in a hunt test and all of a sudden you start getting asked about breeding him, it would be a shame if he is neutered.
The dog won't be at his prime till about 4 or 5, and you should neuter them young.
It all depends on what you want.
The labs I've seen neutered did not have the drive of an intact dog, but that could have just been the dog itself.

Unless one is specifically planning on doing some *responsible* breeding with the dog, not backyard breeding, I see not one reason to keep it intact.

quote:

Originally posted by brad may:
We compete my dogs. If people see your dog in a hunt test and all of a sudden you start getting asked about breeding him, it would be a shame if he is neutered.
The dog won't be at his prime till about 4 or 5, and you should neuter them young.
It all depends on what you want.
The labs I've seen neutered did not have the drive of an intact dog, but that could have just been the dog itself.

A reasonable response Brad but on the other hand one could simply point interested parties back to the breeder you purchased your dog from assuming the bloodlines that helped make your dog so good are still available there.

I bought a Trieven Kennel male some 17 years ago, neutered him as a puppy and found him to be an unstoppable hunter. I'm not exagerating, we just didn't loose birds. Thick cattails, long swims, didn't matter. Knock a bird down, "Gus" would bring it back. Teal to swans and everything in between. All that from a lean 75# neutered male.

Today I have a Trieven female, (spayed,) and find her to be a very good retriever.

Scott
I sure wish I could take pictures as well as you do. That right there is what it's all about.
My first male came from nothing, it was given to me. At his first hunt test, at a year old, I was getting inquires about breeding him.
Most dog owners that compete their dogs always have it in the back of their mind that their pup will be the next Lean Mac. When you start getting big bucks in a dog, you also tend not to let it roam the neighbor hood.
Also when you have big money in a dog you can also make some money by breeding them.
I really don't think neutering a male will affect him. If he has it in him to go thru a brick wall to get a bird,it will happen.

We do not neuter any of our dogs or pups! People who contact us for a puppy or started dog, do so because in most cases they already know the quality of dogs we raise, plus the 4 generation of national champions backing them up. I will not sell a dog or pup to someone, who plans on neutering it later down the road.

I am genuinely suprised at your reply bluedog. To assume a puppy from your kennel is going to be of the quality to pass on its genes no matter the circumstances excepting its blood lines is either omnicient or,.........

Common run of the mill novice dog handlers like myself can avoid a raft of personality and health problems by simply sterilizing their working dog.

I can't emphasize enough the benefits of owning male dogs that don't fight, don't wander, and don't grow into the blocky heavy build of an intact male dog. The peace of mind I have in knowing my female won't get pregnat, ( no vet in Dillingham,) won't attract a sidewalk full of amorous male dogs and won't get reproductive cancer, (oh yeah, no bleeding in the house!) lets me sleep well every night.

I'd prefer to let the pro's like bluedog handle the breeding and novices like myself do the feeding and poop scooping.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
What are the benefits and drawbacks to this.....besides making puppies?

You should do a google search and read the many articles written by vets.

There is scientific evidence that is causes bone growth problems when performed on a dog under 2 years old. After that age, it is relatively safe, but it does increase the chances of getting various cancers.

I fix all my hunting dogs as soon as I can. Then all they think about is hunting. Nothing worse to have around then a dog always trying thump another dog,fight ect.

My fixed dogs hunt just as hard as any none fixed dog I have hunted with.

Unless your selling pups no reason not to cut them.

We ran into something I didn't realize could happen in an older dog that was still intact.

The extra testosterone in OLDER dogs can actually start degrading tissue in the surrounding areas. Our 10 year old developed a rather severe hernia from this condition. It was difficult to have repaired and the vet said sometimes impossible because of tissue degradation.

This was the advice of the Univ of MN Vet Hospital regarding OLDER intact males. Not a sure thing it'll happen, but if neutered, a guarantee it will not happen.

My old guy recovered very nicely and lived several more very productive hunting seasons to hunt with his son, grandson and great grandson before we lost him a couple months ago.

Just one more thing to consider for your best canine friends and hunting companions.

IMO, neutering has no influence on the energy or drive of a dog. It does not change behaviors in many cases such as aggression, marking, etc especially when the behavior has already been developed.
There are some pretty good research studies out there that indicate pretty strongly that neutering at a young age (before 15-18 months) can negatively influence growth development. Growth plates don't close normally, dog's can become taller, thinner, "weedier", and not develop male characteristics. We have probably all seen such dogs that look like "she-males", smaller boned, large chested with small heads. Most important for me is the fact that dogs neutered too early have a higher incidence of physiological problems--ACL ruptures, OCD, joint and tendon problems...probably due to the disruption of the normal development/growth pattern. Go online and you will find a lot of good information....consider the sources carefully. MOST vets want to snip dogs before they're weaned...after all its good income and it keeps all of us irresponsible owners who let our dogs roam unsupervised from producing unwanted puppies....every vet thinks that way.

Scott King......when you have 4 generations of national champions on the top side and 3 generations on the bottom side plus 2 other field champions and shooting dog champions, results of pups are not hard to figure. Being a very select breeder of my bitches, I can tell you what those pups are going to be like, before they leave the kennel. We don't raise any "Dinks" or "LAP Dogs"!!!

They may not win a NFC in front of their name at 6 years old, (National Filed Trial Championship) however, they will sure as hell hold their own in any performance trial, or be the best damn bird dog 95% of msst hunters could ever hope to hunt behind bare-none!

Now years of breeding the very best to the very best, (just like the thorough bred race horse people have been doing for decades) produces the same kind of pup and dog, that backs up their pedigree. We do NOT breed GSP's dogs for perfect ears, coat, gait, length of muzzle, tail, eyes or bite. We don't breed GSP dogs to find wounded deer, I do have a bloodhound for those types of matters. We don't breed our dogs for those that wish to compete in swim competition or jumping into the water either.

On the contrary, we breed for Speed, Desire (to hunt) Stamina, Affection, Agility, Performance,
and a nose that can pick up a bird at 50 to 75 frigging yards down field, while they are running full tilt.

Blue dog do have the names of your bitchs and dogs. whats the name of your kennel.

Some of us might be interisted in buying a pup

Do you have a web site for them and your kennel

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Dog:
Scott King......when you have 4 generations of national champions on the top side and 3 generations on the bottom side plus 2 other field champions and shooting dog champions, results of pups are not hard to figure. Being a very select breeder of my bitches, I can tell you what those pups are going to be like, before they leave the kennel. We don't raise any "Dinks" or "LAP Dogs"!!!

They may not win a NFC in front of their name at 6 years old, (National Filed Trial Championship) however, they will sure as hell hold their own in any performance trial, or be the best damn bird dog 95% of msst hunters could ever hope to hunt behind bare-none!

Now years of breeding the very best to the very best, (just like the thorough bred race horse people have been doing for decades) produces the same kind of pup and dog, that backs up their pedigree. We do NOT breed GSP's dogs for perfect ears, coat, gait, length of muzzle, tail, eyes or bite. We don't breed GSP dogs to find wounded deer, I do have a bloodhound for those types of matters. We don't breed our dogs for those that wish to compete in swim competition or jumping into the water either.

On the contrary, we breed for Speed, Desire (to hunt) Stamina, Affection, Agility, Performance,
and a nose that can pick up a bird at 50 to 75 frigging yards down field, while they are running full tilt.

The most important thing you wrote, (for me,) was your dis inclination to breed for cosmetics or appearance. Gun dogs I gather from your post are for work and as Wiley Post said, "Good horses have good color.".

Having said that, and no offense meant especially since as an Alaskan I'll never own a pointing breed, but I'd never purchase a working dog, hell a dog of any kind that the breeder insisted I leave intact. As an amatuer dog handler you know just from my title that I am no expert at k-9 judging, frankly as an un professional gun dog owner I know I am horribly and perhaps incorrigibly prejudiced in favor of the pet under my dominion and should not be trusted to make pro creation decisions that effect future breed sucess.

Just a thought.

So Blue Dog...do you mean that if a little of that "Pointer look" creeps in there, its OK with you???

Jon-P.......I don't know what you mean by "A little bit of that pointer look creeps in" Hell my dogs are Pointers! YES, I like to refer to them as the AMERICAN UPGRADE, of German Shorthair Pointers simply put.

Scott King..... I suppose a picture is worth a 1000 words in a case like this thread. I'll do my best to see if I can post on of my studs so you can take a look at what a good pointing dogs needs to look like in the field.

I have people call me up all the time looking for a "white blaze in forehead" or "solid liver head" "4 white socks" "half white tail showing at 12 o'clock" playful "disposition" and liver patches on both sides.

I do NOT engineer colors on any pups! The MAN upstairs takes care of all that and I have not been disappointed yet with any litter.

We raise oustanding gun dogs with a dynamic predigree to back them up. Noq my stud Major was the pick of the litter produced by Nancy & Randy Colfelt who owned NFC/FC Magnums Touch Of Gold. Major...was never campaigned for a title. However, his full brother FC Wild Feathers Face The Music" known as FACE did become the National 2year old Futurity winner in 2006. He also has a full sister that became a FC Dog also.

Majors, sire is NFC/FC Heide HO'S MRT, who was sired by the only 5 time national champion in the breed NFC/FC Heide Mighty City Slicker known as "SLICK" and is a Hall Of Fame dog in the breed. Now his sire is NFC/FC San Jo Sin City Slicker (also a hall of fame champion) and his mother Heide Ho Pinehurst was a national shooting dog champion.

quote:

Jon-P.......I don't know what you mean by "A little bit of that pointer look creeps in" Hell my dogs are Pointers! YES, I like to refer to them as the AMERICAN UPGRADE, of German Shorthair Pointers simply put

So by that, you mean that some thanks should go to Mr. Wehle too

J-P, lets just say there were a bunch gentlemen who where indeed "performance orientated" and thus you have todays GSP performance dogs. I'll try to see if my wife of many years can post some pictures for those who don't realize what the difference in the field is with these fast running, high stamina dogs. Oh! they don't point just to bad either.

So why not just breed Pointers? and just forget the what the papers say. I think they put VW with corvette engines in the modified class...don't they?

JonP, I never could afford the insurance on the corvettes! I never could fit into a frigging VW either. I did once have a B-Gasser in a 40 Ford coupe years ago. Engine was a 55 Olds with 6 Stromberg Carbs and a Caddy Tranny.

Oh my! I seem to have forgotten the subject matter for heavens sake. Well you see, it is like this, those English Pointers are non-affectionate and they roam for 200 yards out or more. They would just as soon as you go shopping, drop them off to do the hunting and pick them up later.

My German Shorthair Pointers range from 50 to 125 yards and love affection and can't wait to give it to you. They are somewhat smarter than an English Pointer and most have a more refined head. They are also a more cold weather dog and much more versatile period. Now you know the facts!