This looks like an ideal breed for my farm/livestock situation. Anyone here have experience with them? Anyone know of any breeders?

Big dog Ann. Never heard of them so I just googled the name. These lines worry me.

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The Šarplaninac is a very serious and dedicated guard dog. Due to this, they are naturally suspicious of strangers and will need good socialising at a young age to lessen this innate personality trait. They are calm and gentle with their family but when faced with danger they become a formidable foe, not a suitable breed for all. Consistent and firm training is essential to ensure compliance.

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It looks like to have a bit of mastiff in it, if your after a guarding breed my choise would be the maremma.

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Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
This looks like an ideal breed for my farm/livestock situation. Anyone here have experience with them? Anyone know of any breeders?

I'm not trying to discourage you in saying this, so please don't take it that way. But, I assume that these dogs are an extremely rare breed due to the fact that I've never heard of them and consider myself to be fairly knowledgable of the different breeds. With that in mind, I'm a little bit skeptical that they would be an ideal breed for anyones situation, unless that situation is equally unique. Like with most rare breeds, you'll have trouble finding breeders. The breeders you do find aren't likely to have an unbias opinion of their chosen breed or their dogs, making it all but impossible to evaluate the kennel/dogs relative to others. If you don't mind me asking, what is it about this breed that you think fits your farm/livestock situation? Any other breeds you're considering?

I'm also considering a maremma. The sarpie attracts me a bit more as it seems to be more independent than most dog breeds. This would be a working animal in strict sense, not a house pet. That means the dog stays out with the livestock 24/7.

Most preditor issues occur in my area at night or early morning after I leave for work. Also, the chosen breed needs to be able to cope with severe winter weather.

To me Ann independents means hard to train. What sort of preditors are you concerned about?

Guys, I have a variety of critters: Coyotes, fox, fisher, bobcat, mink, other people's dogs, hawks, possible two legged varmints.

My labrador currently does the job but she would not deter other domestic dogs or humans. Being she is a lab, she much prefers to be with me than guard livestock. A true LGD wants to be with its herd.

It does sound like you need such a unique dog, guarding livestock and being able to deal with the winters yall get up there. In this part of the country, some people use donkeys to guard their livestock and it's pretty regualar to see a bulldog of some sort around the farm yard keeping an eye on things. I never would have thought of a donkey as being a protector of livestock, but from what I've been told they are hell on the coyotes. I see them quite a bit mixed in with cattle, sheep and goats.

Well I reckon if you do the right socialization and training with it, it'll suit your needs. If you find there are no breeders about I'd go for two maremma's, just to cope with a pack of yote's.

Two words Ann

Great Pyranees.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyrenees

I know of quite a few folks who have these. In every case I'm aware of, the unwanted critters (coyotes, bobcats, etc.) are never seen again. These dogs are also very loyal and make great family dogs as well. Don't take that to mean they are soft. Rest assured, your predator issues will be resolved in short order. Not many men have the stomach either to challenge a 125 lb dog. They are also fairly easy to find, in my area at least. I know a couple who were having coyote problems, and got a female that was about six months old. Even at that young age, when they started leaving her out at night, they never even heard a coyote again. Good luck.

Not sure what kind of livestock you have, but for shear protection from coyotes/feral dogs and such, nothing beats a llama. Donkeys don't even come close (although you can buy donkeys for $10-50 around here) IMO. A llama will kill your household pet too though. And if you ride horses inside the pasture with your stock, the horses will have to be llama broke. I worked on a ranch that had a whole herd of llamas for guarding the cattle. We had several horses run through fences (including rider) until they learned to stand their ground against the llamas. We also lost a damned fine border collie to them when someone forgot...

Llama's hey. Thats interesting. I know Alpaca's are used here in Australia as a guardian animal but mainly against foxes. Its said they won't do much good against a dog pack.

I can't speak directly towards dog packs per se, but llamas are the only animal that I am directly familiar with who have actively killed dogs/coyotes in the guardian roll, other than armed men, of course. I mean it. Even if they were right there with you, you did NOT bring a stockdog into the pasture with those llamas, unless you had something against the dog.

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Originally posted by Bakes:
Llama's hey. Thats interesting. I know Alpaca's are used here in Australia as a guardian animal but mainly against foxes. Its said they won't do much good against a dog pack.

Ironic - Friends of ours use llamas to guard their alpacas. AFAIK, foxes, coyotes and stray dogs haven't been an issue for them since.
Another friend bought two GP sibling pups for his farm and had problems with them going after their own livestock. The breeder told him they can have fairly wild juvenile years if they are not trained properly and bought them back. I dunno if that is true for the breed but it was true for these two. (Ducks seemed to be a favorite target of theirs. Nothing left but little patches of feathers in the fields.)

Suffice to say, Ann, whatever you get, if the dog doesn't take to it naturally, some correction will be in order. I have a 35lb AS/GS mixmaster (mixmistress I guess) and she handles the random animals around my place. Her 80 lb Walker Hound companion handles the two legged critters. It's like a canine odd couple but it works.

one thing to be aware of is that a pair of coyotes will learn fast how to kill a dog. they bite a dog 40 times to once for the dog. they usually first go under the dog and tear out the underbelly. not nice

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Originally posted by butchloc:
one thing to be aware of is that a pair of coyotes will learn fast how to kill a dog. they bite a dog 40 times to once for the dog. they usually first go under the dog and tear out the underbelly. not nice

I've heard stuff like this as well but, at least where I live, the only animals that really takes a beating consistently from the coyotes are rabbits and chickens. Livestock and whitetails get more attention from the stray dogs.

Ann,

Since you are looking at a Maremma, I will suggest you look at a Kuvasz. More lines to choose from and another BWD (Big White Dog). Based on my experience with Kuvs and Great Pyr for the job you outlined, I recommend only the Kuvasz. Do a quick search you will see what I mean. They are bigger also than average Maremmas. My current Kuv is a bit runty at 110 pounds.

Actually, pyrs are not one of my choices as they are night time barkers. That's not what I want. I'll look at kuvasz as a choice.

I saw some pricing on some old puppy ads for sarpies, $1800! Looks like quite the investment, might have to settle for a maremma.

No question. Greater Pyranees. Will bond with the livestock.

quote:

Originally posted by Aspen Hill Adventures:
Actually, pyrs are not one of my choices as they are night time barkers. That's not what I want. I'll look at kuvasz as a choice.

I saw some pricing on some old puppy ads for sarpies, $1800! Looks like quite the investment, might have to settle for a maremma.

I've not heard this . My next door neighbor even had a young female GP, and she never barked. She's probably the main reason I like the breed, as she was an absolute sweetheart, if you knew her. Her barking was also abscent despite their basset hound doing his absolute best to show her how time and again. LOL

And they can be had around here for $150 and up. Best of luck, but remember, the common breeds are common for a reason, just as the obscure ones are obscure for a reason.

The dog you want is the Kangal.