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| One of Us |
Hypothetical situation you are bird hunting either alone or with someone and they shoot your dog by accident and kill it. What would you do ? | ||
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beat them bloody... Dogs do NOT look like Pheasant or Quail. Or Geese/Ducks. | |||
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Make that individual replace the dog at the current market price for a fully trained bird dog which can vary from $2500.00 to $8000.00 depending on the breed. Did this happened to you twilli? | |||
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A) Don't hunt with people that'll shoot your dog and always make sure your dog won't be shot. That's not a question. That's not a "try not to," My bird dog is my family, is my kid and I'll no more hazard a loved persons life than I will my bird dog. B) was it callous negligence? Was is an honest, unavoidable accident? I'd think many here would at least be tempted to shoot the callously negligent one that shot their loved one. That is revenge or reprisal. Replacing the dog at full value doesn't begin to answer the loss of countless hours of joyful training, transporting, and associating with a prized bird dog. The last thing I'd ever want would be some 3 year old Field Trial ready complete stranger to me. | |||
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Don't hunt with Dick Cheney!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | |||
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No didn't happen to me but was at field trial this weekend and guy had a dog there with 3 legs. He accidently shot it with 12 gauge from 18 yards. Was sliding gun under fence and it went off. I on occasion take people bird hunting to introduce them to the sport and most have not hunted behind a dog. I instruct them on the do's and don'ts of hunting behind a pointer or setter but invariably someone at one time or another has probably come unglued at a flush and shot the dog. Just don't know what I would do. Probably have a hard time not killing them. Would probably press charges against them but don't know if that would be applicable. | |||
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In Risk Management, an accident is defined as lack of intent. In other words, it was not done on purpose, maliciously or planned. That does not remove responsibility or negligence; just intent. As a Director of Health and Safety in a global company, the most important part of my job is preventing accidents. Most accidents are a result of Latent Operational Weakness (LOW). I find that to be an ironic acronym. Common LOWs are lack of training, lack of communication and lack of enforcement. I am amazed at the number of accidental discharges discussed here on AR. Most are sworn off as "things just happen" accidents. Many leap to fix the blame but few want to discuss solutions or the LOWs leading up to the tragedy. Preventing accidents requires one to be open minded, thick skinned and brave. Yes, brave. Most people do not have the ability to tell another adult to "stop that unsafe act or behavior". Finding solutions to prevent a repeat requires even more bravery, communication and open mindedness. You have to admit you made a mistake and are willing to change. Anytime I am with another person, family member, peer, guide, PH, etc. I request (not really a request) we discuss safety first. I let them know what I will and will not do and insist that we watch out for each other. Humans make mistakes. I am surprised at the number of experienced firearm owners that do not like that or even feel uncomfortable discussing the topic. I recently had a guide request that I stop unloading my firearm anytime we enter a vehicle or cross an obstacle! I smiled and pointed out that our lives have more value than the #1 trophy in the world. At the end of our hunt he expressed his appreciation and began to tell me various scary, unsafe firearm handling stories. When I asked why he did not stop the person and have a safety talk he just shrugged. Be brave. twilli, I have a point to all of this. Start your hunt with a safety briefing. Clearly explain do's and don'ts and let the person(s) know the risks of hunting behind dogs. Establish a "don't shoot" rule for those times when the dog wants to leap into lanes of fire. If you have any doubts about a person, go to a range with them first or just watch how they handle firearms in a safe environment. They will not get better under stress, when they or tired or in rough terrain. If a person cannot understand how important safety is, I do not want to hunt/shoot with them. Life is too precious. Be safe and good hunting.............Larry | |||
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I would probably be spending the rest of my days locked up in some prison somewhere. 465H&H | |||
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Perhaps ask the shooter for replacement value in a professional manner. Justice system will only accept pet or animals as property. It would make him and you feel better and understand the unfortunate situation as it was a pure accident. | |||
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I meant to say to offer advice to the dog owner. | |||
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The very first year I went hunting my uncle said something to me and as I turned to ask him what he said the muzzle of my shotgun covered one of the dogs very briefly - if I had lifted the muzzle ever a foot it wouldn't have been a problem. Not a problem except my Dad saw it and called a halt while he walked over to me. He handed his shotgun to my uncle and emptied mine and ask for all the ammo I had which he took. He sent me back to the car to wait for them to finish the field. I was still waiting some 4 hours while all of them shot limits - when they came back Dad took me aside and ask what I'd learned and then never mentioned it again. DB Bill aka Bill George | |||
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I am somewhat surprised at all the blood letting responses to an accident. I loved my best lab more than most people I've met, but if someone had shot him by accident, I damn sure wouldn't be mad or stupid enough to shoot the shooter. So, judging by many of the responses in here, and without naming the obvious names, the PH should have shot the client who shot him by accident? After all, by any reasonable standard, shooting a person you're hunting with is worse than shooting a dog. Some of you need to get a grip. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Go "grip" your next meal Porky, nobody shoots my bird dog. | |||
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I don't hunt with anyone that I don't know to be a good sportsman and an excellent gun handler. If an accident were to happen, at least I would know if wasn't because of stupidity or foolishness. I would expect to receive proper value for the dog. In 45 years, I have never seen an incident where a dog was endangered. Pick your hunting friends carefully. | |||
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Yeah, you're one of those who isn't exposed to the vagaries of life. Like I said, get a grip, you obviously need to. xxxxxxxxxx When considering US based operations of guides/outfitters, check and see if they are NRA members. If not, why support someone who doesn't support us? Consider spending your money elsewhere. NEVER, EVER book a hunt with BLAIR WORLDWIDE HUNTING or JEFF BLAIR. I have come to understand that in hunting, the goal is not the goal but the process. | |||
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Well so much for trying to get a rational response for what I read to be a pretty simple question- what to do if someone accidentally kills your dog. They key word here is "accidentally", I think we'd all agree that an intentional killing would be having a quite different outcome. How would an accidental death by one means be different than an accident by another? If you were wading across a stream, a dog tried to follow you and drowned, would that be a different type of accidental death? What about a dog in a kennel, someones car is parked on a slope and pops out of park and crushes the dog? (far fetched a bit but hey, I've seen vehicles with broken park pawls before) I'm sure Gato can answer for himself and not need help from anyone, but he does raise a valid issue of this being an accident and not an intentional act. To additionally address the "accidental" aspect, if a dog owner does not review safety processes with a new hunting partner and his dog gets accidentally shot, who ultimately started the chain of negligence in this tragedy? Anyway, I do think this is a very interesting question to bring up. for every hour in front of the computer you should have 3 hours outside | |||
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I had a scary incident where I was hunting with a side by side. I came up behind a young dog on point and the bird flushed, low. I shot the bird. What I didn't see below the barrels is the dog broke and chased the bird. No injuries in this case, but I'd have never shot if I'd known where that dog was. I shot right over his head. Scared me and I didn't trust that dog not to break after that. I guess my point is that accidents can happen and it could be partially the dog, or his trainers' fault. Sad situation no doubt. | |||
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On the shoots I am involved with, and some are walked up over dogs - very clear rule of blue sky behind the bird and guns carried either broken or barrels up. Yes we get birds that are too low to shoot - they are there for another day. But I must admit in a long time of shooting I have yet to come across a shooting accident and long may it remain so. | |||
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Heym: Good rule. Wouldn't shoot a lot of South Texas quail, but I don't need to shoot birds. I do depend on a dog not to break. Had one exception. A goose specialist. No amount of training would stop him from breaking at the shot. With geese, it wasn't a safety issue and he made retrieves of up to 4-500 yards, with some direction, so I couldn't fault him. With pointing dogs, breaking is a real issue. A safety issue. | |||
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One must always assume that the dog will break and so never take a low bird! 465H&H | |||
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As SF Ranger said above, the only thing lacking in an accident is intent. The company I just retired from went a lot more personal with it. An accident resulted from an unsafe act. Lack of training, excitement, etc. didn't matter. If I hunt with someone I have not hunted with, I ask questions. How do you cross a fence? What is the rule for guns in the truck? Loaded or not? Then decided what you are going to do. Accidental discharge or low bird shot at requires everything to stop, be evaluated etc. It takes a real man to ask the hard questions and it takes a real man to admit when he has done wrong. Take off the gloves. It is a life or death situation. Not time to be kind or politically correct. Get these things ironed out before you begin hunting. I don't know how many roosters I've let fly or my boys have let fly because the guns didn't have a round chambered when you cross the fence. I could go on and on but this shit is a real issue. It needs to be addressed often and bluntly | |||
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Originally posted by 465:
Very good advice. Especially when hunting with other peoples' dogs. No bird is worth it. I learned the hard way; fortunately, it wasn't the really hard way. Like the blue sky rule. Would have to let a lot of quail in South Texas go. So what. | |||
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Originally posted by 465:
Very good advice. Especially when hunting with other peoples' dogs. No bird is worth it. I learned the hard way; fortunately, it wasn't the really hard way. Like the blue sky rule. Would have to let a lot of quail in South Texas go. So what. | |||
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Before you take your vengeance, consider yourself lucky it wasn't you he shot. Grizz Indeed, no human being has yet lived under conditions which, considering the prevailing climates of the past, can be regarded as normal. John E Pfeiffer, The Emergence of Man Those who can't skin, can hold a leg. Abraham Lincoln Only one war at a time. Abe Again. | |||
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The only time I ever ALMOST saw it happen was when a young dog not only broke, but the SOB jumped a good 6 feet in the air after the pheasant. He almost got shot. Accidents happen. Ask the tough safety questions. Don't compromise on it. The people I hunt with would feel nearly as badly as I would and would do whatever they could to make it right. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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I grew up on a farm, we raised cattle, sheep and had quite a few horses. My father killed a lot of dogs. When I was a kid, I thought it was pretty horrible until a pair of German Shephards killed 80 sheep in about 3 hours one night when I was in junior high. This conversation is of a different matter, and I think the value of a human is much greater than any animal. That and I would not put myself in a situation where my children were fatherless because I was rotting in the local prison for killing someone who shot a hunting dog no matter how prized. So the answer is nothing. I would do nothing, an accident is an accident. If someone shot my dog for chasing livestock, I wouldn't have a problem with it. Livestock is money and if that is your livelihood then the dog is putting quite a bit of added risk into the equation. Some close friends of mine were recently involved in an accidental spotlight shooting of a cow. The instant it happened the went to the farmers house and told them what had happened, in the morning the cow was found and dispatched by the friends. They offered to pay the farmer for the cow, and a price was agreed. My friends paid twice the price asked by the farmer. He had originally asked them to come by and spotlight coyotes that were running all over hell on his property. A mistake was made, and it was mostly made right, as right as it could be made. | |||
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So many things wrong with this, first it was NO ACCIDENT it was gross negligence when he first did not personally fully unload the gun, then when he knowingly laid it on the ground with a round in the chamber, then doing such with the safety off. Would you call it an " accident " if when the idiot did this act that instead of a dog getting hit it was your son/daughter ??? | |||
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 +1I'd shoot the SOB that shot the dog. I hunted in the TX panhandle with a property owner that shot his own dog because he got pissed. Needless to say, the sheriff wasn't happy with me when I got done with the asshole. | |||
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I took a low shot over a dog at a bird on a preserve hunt not long ago. I approached the guide and said that I didn't like the shot and would not do that again. The guide never took a worried look at me again. On another point, I hunt over a Wirehair. I'm not sure she would realize it if she were shot. | |||
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Years ago my Amish friends were boarding my Border Collie when an 18 year old inbred working the dairy farm across the road just up and shot him on our property. The sheriff knew it was my dog and called me to inform me what had happened. It is a felony to kill a domesticated animal in Missouri unless threatened, which he wasn't. The sheriff knew me well and knew what I was capable of doing to this shit. I had a long talk with Jim Wells, the sheriff, who asked me what I wanted to do. Now, I have been part of this Amish community for 30 years and Sam and I are very close. I knew if I prosecuted this shit or hurt him that this dairy farm family would hold it against my friends in whatever way they could. I had the sheriff get the kid on the phone (I live 70 miles away) and this kid was crying like a little girl. I asked him why he had shot a beautiful animal and he had no answer. He knew I was an attorney and could have the local prosecuting attorney file charges. Didn't want to cause any trouble for my friends. I made the kid drive to my home with my dogs leash. Didn't make it any easier on me but I just hope that it may have taught him a lesson. Fast forward to last November as I was conducting a criminal jury trial and saw that kids name on my jury list. The bailiff was a good friend and I told him the story and sent him out after voir dire to tell the kid who I was. I told the judge the story and this kid was out of the courthouse in 10 seconds flat. Didn't figure I needed him around and he sure as hell didn't want to sit on my jury. Not much of a story and I sure miss Wyatt. But that's my answer to your question. Yes, a different outcome if my friends would not have been affected by the outcome. | |||
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I would sue but my Mom would probably kill the person. Also my dog does not hunt so someone would need to kill my dog. On second thought I would probably shoot him too. Mike | |||
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Sadly i have to live with that danger because i receive many hunters a year and we huntbirds pumas and boars with dogs ,sometimes we use dogos to hunt buffalos too . I lost a small dog ,-one of my guides dog -shot in a peccary driven hunt and i have my dogo Choel shot many times . www.huntinginargentina.com.ar FULL PROFESSIONAL MEMBER OF IPHA INTERNATIONAL PROFESSIONAL HUNTERS ASOCIATION . DSC PROFESSIONAL MEMBER DRSS--SCI NRA IDPA IPSC-FAT -argentine shooting federation cred number2- | |||
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