I would talk to someone that is in the Business of suppyling, and training, Dogs to the Local Police Depts.

The Sheperds comming out of Europe are the best I have seen.

I am not a Dog expert, but I have been around and worked [around, not as a Dog handler, but with them] Police Dogs for over 30 years.

I know of a couple who place German Shepards as seeing eye dogs and dogs that go to the police departments across the USA, however these are trained dogs not puppies.

Giant Schnauzer. A beautiful, elegant dog, not seen everywhere in the USA but widely used by police in Germany & Europe. A good family dog too.

If I were a burgler out casing houses and saw a pair of any of the dogs mentioned, I'd make a note to avoid that house and go someplace dogless.

I had an Airedale that could turn on and off his protective instincts when given simple commands. That dog, Buckwheat, could go from lapdog to mankiller in a split second.

Some breeds like Chessies and Chows scare me because they are unpredictable. Chessies may be the worst because little kids think they're just a big Lab and then find out differently the hard way.

There is a French breed which may be just what you're looking for. It's called a Beauceron:

http://dogbreeds.bulldoginform...n.com/beauceron.html

A very good friend of mine has one and it is a very impressive guard dog, kinda big too.

Wink, that's a great looking dog. I like the fact it has a short coat too.



Put a couple of those in your yard and a would-be intruder is going to think twice about bothering your house or the houses on either side of you.

I knew nothing about Beaucerons until becoming close friends with a hunter here, who went with me on my first safari to South Africa. This dog is one of the best looking, best charactered big dogs I have ever come accross. Truly lovable big lunks who scare the shit out of anybody they think might be trying to get into "their" yard without permission. It took me a few years before he decided to let me in the yard without his master at his side.

Wink there is nothing on this earth that really beats a German Shepard in all catagories for guard dog work and family pets as well. There are a couple of breeds that come close but the German Shepard rules!!!

Now the price of a trained guard dog depends on the level of training and it's pedigree. There are a lot of those dogs that sell for up into the $25,000 dollar range. The average being $15,000 dollars.

Lavaca,

what did you adopt???????????????????

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Dog:
Wink there is nothing on this earth that really beats a German Shepard in all catagories for guard dog work and family pets as well. There are a couple of breeds that come close but the German Shepard rules!!!

Now the price of a trained guard dog depends on the level of training and it's pedigree. There are a lot of those dogs that sell for up into the $25,000 dollar range. The average being $15,000 dollars.

Blue Dog, my knowledge of dogs is pretty much limited to what I posted above. I have no experience with dog training, other than having toilet trained some English Cockers as pets. Just thought I would let people know that there are options.

http://www.angelfire.com/mi2/beauceron/index.html

Wink I been fooling around with dogs for close to 5 decades now and my favorite house dog is a Jack Russel believe it or not. However, for protection or a guarddog, it will be the German Shepard.

My favorite bird dog breed is of course the German Shorthair Pointer, which we ourselves raise at our kennel. The American Field Trial version no less! Middel size in weight and very fast in the field. Also love those Labs a bunch! We used to raise those years ago but I don't duck hunt anymore.

I have a big Weimer, a heeler, and a blue lacey that are all excellent watch dogs and keep the wild hogs out of my yard as well as any folks they do not know.

My favorite all around cowdog, hogdog, truck and home watch dog was a black mouth cur... "Old Red Dog".

The Weimer, Lacey, and cur are all slick short haired dogs and do well in hot humid climates like I live in here in South Texas.

This thread is a little old so I don't know if Lavaca ever got a guard dog or not but I'll post anyway.

I'm not a expert by any means, but like most I've been around my share of dogs for over 45 years.

I have been bitten far more times by old style German Shepherds, (the big ones) not the crap that is being bred here in the U.S now days AND little Chihuahuas.

Having said that, the best dogs I've ever owned as far as watch/guard dogs are Blue Heelers, Daschunds-yes Daschunds- and a cur dog I acquired 2 years ago from south Texas. My 1/2 Blackmouth, 1/2 Mountain Cur weighs 75 lbs. and is very aggressive and loyal. I actually think he would fight to the death for my wife and I if necessary. But dogs like the cur need ALOT of room and regular freedom to roam and do their thing like chasing, sniffing 'n smelling and hunting critters.

The Heelers need their space too but they seem to be perfectly content to be by their masters and are not happy when they aren't. They are extremely loyal and attached to their masters. They too can be very aggressive.

The Daschunds are very alert and hear and smell everything. They will let you know it too. The bad side is they are prone to having back problems if mis-handled. They are excellant hunters and can be aggressive too. They are just too small to do anything about it most of the time except when it comes to varmints their own size. Then it's another story.
My wife has had Daschunds for over 20 years.

In short, I don't think it's the breed so much as it is the dog and his owner that make the most diff.

Quote: "I AM NOT AN EXPERT BY ANY MEANS"

You are so right! Daschunds make great house pets but you will never see one on the police force, or in service period, same goes for the breed called "healers" as they are a herd gathering breed.

Any breed of dog can be agressive but that sure as pickles, does not qualify them for guard duty work or service by any means. You may want to read up on the qualifications.

I raise German Shorthair Pointers and certainly do have some that are very aggressive to strangers etc. However, they are no match for a German Shepard guard dog!

Bluedog, you obviously missed the point of my post. (probably my fault as my writing skills are not nearly as good as yours) Never meant to say that a Daschund was a guard dog just that they are good watch dogs. I should have seperated them in the sentence.
The point I WAS trying to make is that it's the individual dog's mind set and it's handling that will make it a good guard dog and not necessarily the breed. Just because it says " used for guard dogs" or "herding dogs" in the books doesn't always make it just so. Seen plenty of examples of this myself.

Another example; every few years or so, Lackland Air Force base will release to the public, dogs that wash out of their "guard dog" training programs. Unless their breed preference has changed, most if not all are/were German Shepherds. Those that are deemed safe are given new homes. Those that will "twist off" are put down. This is as per San Antonio news channels that put the word out of the of the offering. I even knew someone who acquired one of these dogs quite a few years back. The dog was as mild mannered as a kitten.

For my needs, my cur dog is an excellant guard dog, as he will not let anyone in the yard much less into my house, other than my wife or I (or maybe sancho). I am still working on the "heel" command though. So far, he doesn't care much for that part yet as he has chased quite a few back to the gate with me standing there. He is extremely protective of us. My previous Heeler was the same but she would heel when told. And she too was not scared to take on someone.

Again, my point is that although a German Shepherd is a pretty good choice, there are others and IMO it doesn't have to be a pure bred either as some Heinz 57s could fit the bill also. Seen them.

Unless I missed something in a later post, and MAYBE I did, I did not see where Lavaca said he wanted a professionally trained guard dog. If he does/did, then he should be asking a professional guard dog trainer and not here.

Any dog I've ever had made excellent watch dogs and two of them, my old English pointer and my current mutt would make guard dogs. The pointer was pretty unique as far as pointers go in that he was not only an affectionate family dog, but was also protective of his family. When a stranger or other dog approached, he was always in between you and them and would just stand there eyeball fucking them until he figured out what their intentions were. Other than that he was a big lap dog, literally. He was the most fit and healthy dog until the day he died at 15 year old from a flipped stomach. People thought he was 2 years old from the way he looked and acted. When I went off to college my Dad kept Gunner, when I got back from college I was told that Gunner was no longer my dog, my Dad and him were best buds at that point and I've never seen my Dad so tore up as the day we had to put Gunner down.

Two years ago I was ready to have another dog of my own. I thought about a Lab since I already had one that was the most obedient dog I've ever had and a great hunting dog, but decided I didn't have the time to train another retriever so just a loyal pet would do. I went to the pound just about every week for 6 months and while I wish I could take them all home I didn't find "the one" I had to have. One day I went back to the animal shelter and saw my dog. He had a broken back leg, broken ribs, mange, scars, he was emaciated and an open gash on his head. Other than that he was in great shape. I figured he'd be put down if someone didn't adopt him. I figured he was about 5-6 months old and had had a tough enough start that he deserved a break and I had a big backyard and a good home for him. After springing him from the pokey I took him straight to the vet and had the works done on him. It took about 3 months to get him back to healthy shape, but with a little work and a couple hundred bucks at the vet he is a great dog. Now Hank is my best bud, gets along with everyone and goes everywhere with me...even work. Has only had 1 accident in the house since I have had him and never chewed anything but his toys. As good as he is it's hard to believe he has any protective instinct at all. The vet told me he is a Great Dane / Bulldog of some sort mix. He stands about 28"ish at the shoulders and is a rock solid 90 pounds. He is a decent watchdog and an excellent and proven guard dog. When it comes to his personality, he's ALL bulldog. A bulldog doesn't make a great watchdog in general as they don't do much barking. When something isn't right Hank is at the door with his head and shoulders lowered, ready to check things out. A bulldog doesn't "tell" you they are going to bite, they show you they are going to bite. A while back there were some mexicans breaking into garages on my street, my garage was one of the only ones that didn't get hit after Hank foiled their plan one night. I don't think he got teeth in them before they got over the fence, but I wouldn't want to be the one to do their laundry when they got home. I just wish he'd have gone after the one who ran around the front of the house instead of the two that went for the fence, that sucker would have been in the wide open and would have lost that race.

My suggestion for a guard dog? I'd be looking for something at the pound that looks to have some bulldog mixed in. GSD's, rotts, dobermans and all are nice and very capable as guard dogs, but where the metal meets the meat there is a reason it's called "bulldog tenacity". If I was looking for a guard dog it'd be a dog that is loyal, smart, obedient and gamey. A gamey dog is going to stay with the fight even after it's had it's leg broke, been shot, punched, kicked and whatever else. Most dogs that haven't been bred for gameness don't have it in them and self preservation kicks in pretty quick. As far as pure breed dogs go, I think an American bulldog from working stock would be about as good as it gets. Great family dogs, great with kids and easy to keep. They are friendly with everyone but will bring the wrath of God down on you if you have it coming or threaten their family.

I have owned pb large dogs for over 50 years, used them in the wilderness of BC as bush companions and live in a very rough area of Vancouver. I have tried a number of breeds and handled many breeds.

I keep two pb champion Rottweilers, a bitch and a dog and do NOT "guard" train them and while other houses in my area are burgled, NOBODY even tries to come in my yard. I have never, in my years with dogs, had a dog under my control bite a human andmy Rottweilers are like my children and live in the house and sleep on the bed for an hour each morning.....they just do the job and are the best companions I could want.

quote:

Originally posted by ravenr:
austrailian cattle dog!!!
common name "Heeler"
owned them all my life,turn them "on" and "off"
with one word commands.
very smart,loyal,intelligent,fast,and protective
of family and property.
I hunt birds,catch Mt. lion,chase grizzlys,cows horses,taught mine to hunt shed horns,trail wounded game,fetch my slippers and a beer out of the refrigirator.
word commands,hand signals and sometimes i believe he can read my mind.
training reqires this dog be at your side the first 2 years of his life or you will have a feral dog.
25-35 pound dogs that will and can do it all.
they have NO fear and are a big enough package to get the job done,yet small enough you don't need a wheel barrow to clean up after. low food costs also.
my wife goes backpacking in the grizzly infested Mts of wyoming, ALONE.
as long as "zip" is with her i have no worries.

http://dogsinthenews.com/issue...articles/010730a.htm
My vote goes for best guard dog and loyal friend goes to the Australian Cattledog...

Ditto on the Aussie dogs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2BfzUIBy9A

Dewey good choice!!!


Now for those that don't have a clue, a good trained guard dog starts off at $8,000 dollars on up towards 20 GRAND people and there is a reason, a ton of training goes into that individual, who has to qualify with the proper personality to do the job.

quote:

Originally posted by Blue Dog:
Dewey good choice!!!


Now for those that don't have a clue, a good trained guard dog starts off at $8,000 dollars on up towards 20 GRAND people and there is a reason, a ton of training goes into that individual, who has to qualify with the proper personality to do the job.

Only for those who pay $500 for a toilet seat and $800 for a hammer.
Do you work for the federal govt. by any chance?

RAE-59, I suggest sir that you get off your backside and check out those prices! I am positive you will find my post to be correct and NO I never worked for the Feds but did serve my country during Viet Nam.

You remind me of many people who call up trying to purchase a finished "Bird Dog" for $500 to $800 dollars.......such fools. Those are 1955 prices! However, some people try to purchase a $50,000 dollar Caddy for the price of a 5 year old VW but the saleman just leaves them standing on the lot looking.

I currently have 3 dogs... A 2 year old yellow lab, a 8 month old Old English Bulldog, and a 8 year old mut... The mut is part Doberman part Australian Shepherd (best I can tell). When we are out walking together, the mut always puts himself between her and anyone who walks by.. He doesnt make a lot of noise, but watches their every move. At night he lays between the bed and the door. He also doesnt make much noise when I come in in the middle of the night, but there is no doubt in my mind he would spring to action if need be.

I know if I was not home, he would protect my girlfriend and her little girl with his life, no question about it. I also know that if SHTF, he would hold on to the bad guy as long as he could so that I could get to my firearms or interviene myself.

Not to mention he has his head on my foot right now, and the 6 year old little girl has to push him out of bed with her at night.... All around great dog, and I have not a single time regretted rescuing him from the pound.

quote:

Originally posted by Rae59:
Ditto on the Aussie dogs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2BfzUIBy9A

Heelers are great loyal and fierce protectors. I grew up on a ranch and we had heelers so I have a good deal of experiance with them. You would be hard pressed to find a better guard/family dog not to big and not to small. A lot of dog warped up in a medium package. fla3006 made a good sugestion of the giant schnauzer or a black Russian. Neat dogs. A Chesapeake bay retriever makes a good guard dog and can retrieve ducks in a hurricane.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blue Dog:
Quote: "I AM NOT AN EXPERT BY ANY MEANS"

You are so right! Daschunds make great house pets but you will never see one on the police force, or in service period, same goes for the breed called "healers" as they are a herd gathering breed.


Try and get into a truck that has a heeler in the back, it might change your mind about the guard dog abilities of heelers.

European German Shepherd. Mine is from Germany and has Belgium Melanois in him.

I prefer a two dog, good cop, bad cop approach.

I am somewhat new to this forum so forgive me if I am speaking out of turn. I have approximately 15 years in the personal security field and have recommended Fila Brasileiro dogs for a number of reasons. They are not for the faint of heart. They are large, powerful, intelligent, and hungry loving companions, who take their job to protect you very very seriously. They are somewhat rare, expensive (cheaper than a trained dog), and do not require any protection training, it all comes naturally. Just bear in mind that such a potentially hazardous creature (they have been banned in some countries) requires a good understanding of basic obedience training, and canine behavior. Just my opinion and an option for you. Fila Brasileiro also known as the Brazilian Mastiff.