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I have a young lab who has only had a bare minimum of training but she so interest in birds. I have had her on quail and chukar and she retrieves them. Recently, a flock of about 18 turkeys has arrived in the neighborhood. I live in a suburban development against the foothills. My lab has been off leash and within 10 ft of these turkeys and shown zero interest. What's up with that? Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | ||
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One of Us |
I don't know if they smell different, but I can attest to their badass nature. If you've ever seen those spurs, and know what a cockfight is, just imagine your pup getting spurred and pecked by a 25 lb. bird. Don't think I'd want my dog to get ahold of one. Hell, most dog trainers want a dog to have a fair bit of experience before messing with a pheasant or goose, or they could get turned off if they meet a crippled bird and it hurts them. As to him not recognizing them as birds, they are a lot bigger than what he's used to. | |||
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One of Us |
Maybe she is smarter than I thought...LoL Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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One of Us |
My pointers could smell and pointed wild turkeys. In fact I never saw them so excited. You can smell a turkey easily, so if you can, the dog surely can. Your lab just isn't equating the turkey smell to a game bird. 465H&H | |||
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I agree with 465H&H my Brittany has pointed many turkeys over the years. I am sure your lab will smell them one of these days. BigB | |||
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One of Us |
Ground birds do smell differently. My Lab loves ducks and dove, but does not like quail or really care for pheasants. He'll pick up the pheasants but really only because I use them for traing, sometomes | |||
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One of Us |
All species of birds have their own specific odor/ scent. Our Britts LOVE pheasant, but hate pigeon. They will retrieve all shot birds, but you can tell by their facial expressions which birds they prefer. I find it unusual that your lab likes dove, most retrievers hate doves because of the way the feathers literally fall off the birds and fill the dog's mouth. Even our Britts dislike that and they spit the feathers out after each retrieve. Our Britts also love turkeys. If your hunting dog is fat, then you aren't getting enough exercise. | |||
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One of Us |
Shootists, He is unusual. He's a gentle giant, a bird machine and epitomizes the love of the retrieve. In S. TX he gets more dove than anything else and is happy to deal w/ feathers coming off in his mouth especially if there's another to be fetched. Hopefully he'll get to pick up some this week. | |||
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One of Us |
Will turkeys hold for a pointer? In other words, can you hunt them like upland birds? Dean ...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men. -Edward, Duke of York | |||
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one of us |
Your dog probably doesn't know that turkeys are prey and not some kind of untouchable pet. In order to teach her differently, try to get some road kill and get her excited with the dead bird. | |||
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One of Us |
No. Hunting turkey is more like hunting deer or elk. They are considered big game for a reason and are not like hunting any upland bird at all. | |||
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Thanks. I'd never heard of anyone hunting turkeys with a dog, but didn't know if that was tradition, regulation or practicality. Dean ...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men. -Edward, Duke of York | |||
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one of us |
You can teach dogs to search for drugs, explosives, vegetables, truffes, retrieve ducks or partridges and track all kind of animals and human beings. To search or track an intensively smelling bird lika a turkey should be no problem at all. The question is: What exactly do you want your dog to do with the turkey: Trail, flush or retrieve it? | |||
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One of Us |
it's because they are in the neighborhood and not in a hunting area. when we moved from an urban area to a rural setting, i had a hard time getting both my dogs to understand we were actually hunting in their back yard. and not just practicing. if you'd have had a shotgun in your hand i'd bet the dog would have acted somewhat differently. it is amusing how dogs deal with different birds my lab would find a dove then pluck the breast before returning it. and a golden i had would pick up a coot [gingerly by the wing]and throw it further out into the water, and refuse to retrieve it. | |||
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One of Us |
Turkey hunting with dogs is allowed only in some states, or counties within a state. This type of hunting takes place in the fall as opposed to the spring season in which the hunting is done by calling only (some folks also use decoys in the spring, we do not... just not our style). The dog is used to locate and scatter a fall flock of turkeys and sound off at the location of the break. The hunter then proceeds to the location of the busted flock, gathers the dog and sets up to call the flock back together. The dog will sit with the hunter while the birds are called into shotgun range and dispatched with birdshot to the head/neck. Good turkey dogs are specifically trained from pups to be turkey dogs by using turkey wings to train the dog to scent trail and chase the turkeys. Scent trails are laid by draggin the wing and the wing will be placed up in a bush or on tree limb for the dog to find, where it is to bark or bay. Wings are attached to a string on the end of a pole and dangled in front of the pup to teach the young dog to chase birds. Most, but not all, turkey dogs are spaniels. Andy -------------------------------------------- National Rifle Association - Life Member National Wild Turkey Federation - Diamond Life Sponsor Pope & Young Club - Associate Member | |||
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One of Us |
I've seen a lot of dogs point turkeys in north MO, but it is illegal to use pointers to hunt them. It's a shame though, I'd love to hunt that way for them. The dogs reaction when 10+ turkeys flush at once is hilarious. One of my hunting buds made us leave one property because he thought it would ruin his pointer and german shorthair pointer since we kept running into turkeys instead of upland birds. It is pretty surprising how tight turkeys will hold on point sometimes. | |||
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Andy, thanks a lot for your interesting post and comments. What kind of dogs you you use for that purpose? Hoy do you find your dogs once they have located turkeys? Do they constantly bark at the treed birds? | |||
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One of Us |
Most of the best turkey dogs are Boykin Spaniels or Boytels, which is a cross of Boykin and German Wachtel Hund. Do an internet search for Boykin Spaniel and you will find a wealth of information. The dog will constantly bark at the sight of the flock break until the hunter arrives. Most time the dog will not venture too far in front of the hunter, but will range back and forth searching for scent much like a pointer. Many times they will range ahead out of sight for a distance and if no scent is detected come back to the hunter before continuing the search. Also, many times the dog is released when a flock has been spotted by sight. Andy -------------------------------------------- National Rifle Association - Life Member National Wild Turkey Federation - Diamond Life Sponsor Pope & Young Club - Associate Member | |||
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Thanks for your comments, quite interesting reading. Funny, I had never expected our "wachtelhunds" being employed for this kind of hunting. OTOH, this is probably the European breed most apt for what you describe. They seem to be very good for this kind of flushing and "hunting on their own" which is here mostly roe deer and wild boar. The Boykin in fact already looks pretty much like a Wachtel, just looked it up on Wikipedia. | |||
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One of Us |
Depends on what you season them with.... "When you play, play hard; when you work, don't play at all." Theodore Roosevelt | |||
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Moderator |
I know that if my dogs are fed leftover Thanksgiving turkey, they'll sure smell "Different" for a day or two! for every hour in front of the computer you should have 3 hours outside | |||
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Best dogs I have ever owned,more guts than any retriever I have ever seen.They have not been screwed up by AKC and conformation show poeple.Simply one of the most beautiful dogs anywhere and hunting fools.He and she will hunt anything that won't hunt them.They will go where no Lab has ever been.Did I say that I like French Brittanies ? | |||
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I had a 1/2 English setter...1/2 Brittany, Cookie. She pointed and retrieved turkeys and several times ran down cripples. She learned to grab their heads and chomp a little; that ended any tussle in a hurry. I lost her to bone cancer and miss one of the finest dogs I've even known. She was Brittany tough, but she had the setter style. | |||
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One of Us |
My springers have flushed turkeys a couple of times. I was surprised to see a bird that big flush like a pheasant. I guess that you could wing shoot them if it was legal but it wouldn't be much of a challenge. | |||
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