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I am fostering parenting a pure bred yellow female lab she is about 15 months old. I know a little about training. She was completely untrained when I got her. So far SIT, HEAL, & OFF are working fine. Any tips for stay. I have always had trouble with that passive command. Also get this...she hardly ever wants to retrieve. About 33% of the time she will fetch just like you think a lab should...she even instinctivel makes a little circle to my left side. The other times she will take a few steps to the ball/dummy and then just stop and come back to me. I smeared a tennis ball with meat and then worked well for about 7 or 8 times in a row, always rewarded her. The next day, nuthin...turned and looked ta me like "You go get it" No one will ever hunt her but sheesh she ought to at least play fetch. Any tips appreciated. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | ||
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Mike, what you need to teach here is the classical "Zwangsapport" or forced retrieve. The idea is that she learns that she HAS TO to retrieve when you tell her and not when she feels like it. I have a Jagdterrier who like your bitch did retrieve when he felt like it. If he didn't feel like it, he just did not. Unaccetable, of course. I read in the excellent book "Der Jagdgebrauchshund" by Carl Tabel about how to teach this forced retrieve. Just go through the steps and a dog as soft and as eager to please as yours should pick that up quite easily. With mine, it worked well. | |||
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Some labs do not have the strong drive, which is why hunters try to test or get dogs from specific bloodlines. I have had both kinds, as pets only. I would not teach the forced retreive unless this is to be a working dog, but that is just me. ------------------------------- Some Pictures from Namibia Some Pictures from Zimbabwe An Elephant Story | |||
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It's best not to use STAY. SIT means SIT. That's what you should work for. Try a schakled pigeon to try to get her fired up. Some dogs don't have the drive you expect but will hunt when the birds are falling. You would have to have obedience down before force fetch. There might be a retreiver club in your area that you could work with and they might be able to get you some birds. Using birds changes every thing. Remember SIT means SIT! | |||
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Mike, do you plan on hunting with this dog? | |||
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No she won't be hunted Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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It is good to teach dogs things, it challenges their intellect and creates a stroger bond with their owner. It's also fun to do it, I think. To teach a retriever retrieving when YOU want it is, I would guess, not that difficult. | |||
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Sit is sit, stay is stay, two different actions two different commands. You may need to stay her when she is walking and this can be done. First off have her sitting on your left, on lead. Give her the "stay" command at the same time bring your left hand acros your body and stop it in front of her nose, palm towards her. Take a pace with your left foot and pivot on it bringing your right around. Keep your hand in front of her nose. At this stage you should be facing the dog. Wait for a count of two then reverse your action and return to where you started. Pause for two then give her a big praise. High pitched voice, lots of pats and "good girls" etc. Keep doing tis for about 3-4 training periods (10 minutes each) over a period of two days or so. Next is to extend the range that you are from the dog. On lead again, same command and action EXCEPT step off on your RIGHT leg (Right leg for stay, left for heel)Go to the end of the lead (1.5 meter lead)but hold your hand up palm towards her. Pause for two to three then return, this time keep your hand and palm up, walk towards the dog and walk around it from it's left (your right)and return to where you are again on the dogs right hand side. As you can't keep your hand up to block any forward movment as you walk around the pooch, move the lead to your left as you go around and just have the lead dangling in its face. Big praise when she does good. If she moves, say in a firm voice "NO" and place her back where she was. You can keep doing this and incease the pause time and distance (get a longer lead of course  ) when you are confident you can try some off lead BUT go back to close range only and start the progression. All our work dogs must stay and they get so good that even pulling hard on the lead they will pull back to keep their arse on the ground. We even used to stay them in front of fire hydrants turn them on and they still wouldn't move. Hope thats not to confusing. Best thing would be to take her to a proper class however.  ------------------------------ A mate of mine has just told me he's shagging his girlfriend and her twin. I said "How can you tell them apart?" He said "Her brother's got a moustache!" | |||
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Somewhere I read that between 14 to 16 months labs go thru a "dumbspell" and once out of it ,everything comes back,and then some(your in that stage(kinda teenage years)) ....Nowadays lab is a vague term ,American Field labs will chase tennis balls or whatver is thrown until YOU DROP! (I have one of these @ 3.y.o.) I just got a yellow male that is 7 months old now and retrieving ,..........he's not big on,chase,tugofwar,catch me if you can ,he likes ,he will retrieve a 20 foot toss,but he'd rather watch the AFL.do all the work( he is learning "drop"....some labs ,are driven ,some are not....it's all in the breeding ....my 13 y.o. english would still like to retrieve,but she's so old and slow now ,you'd get bored waiting,and my 6 y.o. chocolate female,turns her nose up at retreiving ,her thought is "let the boys do that " I'll just supervise....They are all good labs ...The AFL,is the fastest,best retriever I have ever had,and we rescued him because of his high energy ,he should really be with a hunting buddy,but nobody wanted him when he was up for adoption so I took him....he has a great dispostion,nose,fearless,and will work all day for nothing,he even turns down treats to get the toy you have just thrown ....we also had a male yellow just like the chcolate ,they were like twin retrieving nuts,they were so much alike we had to give the yellow away because the yellow was very aggressive to the chocolate.... When it comes to training ,tire her out FIRST,with a long walk ,swim etc,then train her when she is calmer,YOU must be the boss,no retrieve no rewards...YOU control everything she does ,when YOU want to do it .....I have dogs that wait patiently by the door for hours,just waiting for me to pick them up and walk ....most labs mature and settle around 3 y.o. ....some never do ! Good luck,Jim | |||
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all retriever breeds should have the strong instinct to retrieve and you should not have to "force train" them. unfortunately popularity kills breeds. labs have been bred to be trainable and many have lost instinct. I Know of many people who have labs that are experiencing this problem and others (failure to swim). indiscriminate breeding has ruined many breeds goldens and cocker spaniel 's come to mind. How ever any dog can learn. make training fun for the dog so he/she thinks it's a game. | |||
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Sit is the stay command. The dog should sit when told to and only come of of sit when cast off to hunt or retrieve, or told to come to heel. When walking to heel if you teach the dog that when you stop you want it to sit it will very quickly do that. The Sit acts a bit like a handbrake, so again unless you call the dog up it shouldn't move. strangely on the odd occasion I take my spaniel out with me stalking, she sits when I stop. when I have her on the same ground and we are shooting pheasants etc, thhat bit goes out of the window!! That's spaniels for you though As for the retrieving, it is probably a bit early in the training to be asking too much. An older dog will take things on board faster than a puppy but 7-8 retrieves is far too many. Max should be 5 thrown dummies or balls per session and you should pick up at least two of them and walk back to the dog. Smearing the dummy with food will only make the item she is carrying come accross to her like food and if you do end up hunting over her that is the last thing you want. Also if you get a second retrieve that is the way you want it then stop the sessionon a high/positive note. Never finish with a failure. Rgds, FB | |||
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FB --I had a Springer Spaniel, out of very good hunting stock, that had a sense of humor. When we hunted alone or with another family member he was an energetic and tireless hunter who sat on flush until sent (he had a lot of very good training) but when someone he didn't know would be with us --- he'd chase the odd rabbit, chase flushing birds and instead of retrieving to hand he's just stand over the bird until someone picked it up ---- and I swear he did it all with a smirk on his face. I finally got the better of him by taking him along with a stranger and the first time he ran after a bird I caught him and took him back to the truck and had one of my friends turn his dog out to hunt for us. Stoney, the Springer's name, spent a miserable couple of hours watching the 3 of us shoot a limit in about 2 hours. He was a changed dog after that. DB Bill aka Bill George | |||
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