Hello everyone. I am new to this forum and I am seeking advice and help regarding dog training. Sam, my 1.5 year old Vizsla has been recently acting erratic during his dog training sessions, specifically failing to hold his point.

History: Sam has no trouble locating birds and he never works with his nose to the ground, instead he holds his head high. He tells you when he is on a bird with lots of tail wagging and excitement and usually this is a good distance from the bird (20-30 yrds). His pattern is excellent when covering the terrain. Last hunting season he has pointed multiple woodcock and grouse. He always honors the point with other dogs in a solid manner. He always responds to all of my commands positively, shadows all of my movements, and responds to hand signals. He has never run off.

Problem: Sam has not been holding a solid point.

Example: I place a quail in a field where he has not seen or been in. Release him with check cord with the "hunt" command. In no time he will find the bird. Point it for a few seconds approximately 15-30 yrds away and then will pull off and return to me or move back off 5 -10 yards. He just looks at me wagging his tail telling me the bird is there. I gently pick him up and replace him to the spot he originally pointed, straighten his tail up and pet and praise him. Next, I then approached the bird kicking the grass and proceed with the flush. He is steady to wing, but when I shoot he chases, until the check cord stops him. I then purposely miss the bird and mark where the bird land, and then move him to another different field. Later, I returned to the new location of the bird and then he will locked up solid. On this flush he steadies to wing, but still chases on the shot.

Questions: What am I doing wrong? What wrong messages am I relaying to Sam that he is pulling off his point? What steps do I need to do to correct this problem? Is Sam detecting my scent at the first bird location and pulling off because of my scent? It seem like he knows that I know the bird is there, so why are we playing this silly game?

My main goal with Sam is to hunt primarily woodcock and grouse.


Thanks for your help,

Dale

Quit screwing around with your dog and he'll quit screwing around with you.

If you want to do anything, take him for walks and teach him whoa during those walks. Then when he's a little older use whoa to keep him from breaking shot.

Keep up the silly games and you will build in more problems than you already have.

I won't be as harsh as Miles, but I do agree with what he is saying. I have come across many dogs that lost their enthusiasm when they were put on planted birds. This can be seen in many bloodlines that I am aware of and it is a lack of desire. My guess is that once you get him on wild birds he will hold again. He probably can smell the human scent on the bird you are planting and that has him confused and lessens his enthusiasm. After the bird has flown and "airwashed" itself, it smells more like a quail should and he is more confident in his point.

If you want to steady him to wing and shot, I would get some help. Have someone else flush and shoot the bird while you hold onto the check cord so that he stays put. If you have no one else to help you, get a strong stake with about 1.5 feet of rope and a clasp on it. When he points, plant the stake and hook him up so that he cannot chase. He should get the idea pretty quickly.

Yeah, You're right that was harsh.

Here's where I am coming from though. You are dealing with what should be a well bred instinct. I have rescued a number of dogs who've been messed up in precisely this manner by professional trainers who just didn't get it.

What you are looking for is to enhance the natural instincts of the animal, not redirect or modify them. A dog properly taught whoa will when told to whoa on point understand he is doing what he's been told to do. A dog breaking whoa at the flush or shot will understand he broke whoa and that is not associated with the bird. Frankly, I see virtually no use for a check cord at all. Putting a young dog on planted birds is very dangerous when done by a very experienced professional pointing dog trainer. Given the lack of instinct development in planted birds, the only time I see it as a necessity is in the case of a field trial dog who will have to deal with them as a finished adult, and then, preferably after he's been finished on wild birds.

"I'm going on a business trip for a couple weeks. Why don't you take my prize bird-dog out hunting. It will do you both good."

Returning from the trip, he asks: "How'd my prize bird-dog work out for you?"

"Well . . . it was touch-and-go at first. We'd be working across an open field and she'd freeze in her tracks, put her front paw out, stick her tail out behind her, and just refuse to budge.

-- But a couple good swift kicks in the ass straightened her right out."

quote:

Originally posted by daleW:
... but when I shoot he chases, until the check cord stops him. I then purposely miss the bird and mark where the bird land, and then move him to another different field. Later, I returned to the new location of the bird and then he will locked up solid. On this flush he steadies to wing, but still chases on the shot.

Questions: What am I doing wrong? What wrong messages am I relaying to Sam that he is pulling off his point? ... It seem like he knows that I know the bird is there, so why are we playing this silly game?


Dale

You have a very smart dog. He knows that you are playing and not really hunting. If you aren't going to kill the bird, then he doesn't want to point for you. I had a similar problem and another hunter told me to let the dogs have a wounded bird to ignite the hunt instinct, that made my dogs get serious because they saw that I was serious about killing the birds.

Had a lab once that worked just fine, retrieved like a happy machine as long as I did not move one step toward the downed bird if I did he'd just ignore it afterwards, learned to do my part just kill 'em & he'd fetch 'em.

It could be several problems, but he´s too young yet.

Force brake him to retrieve, and then start hunting wild birds. It may surprise you how confident and bold your dog will become.

Reiter.