I have 2 dogs, both Lab/Retriever mixes. Both are rescue dogs and we have had both for 7-8 years. One is female and the other male. The female is the "top dog", and I have always regarded the male as a wuss. Well last night, the male dog bit me badly. he was lying in the grandsons room, in the doorway, and I told him to "C'mon Bailey". he didn't. So, I told him again. Still nothing. So I reached down to grab his collar and he went for me. He caught me good by twisting his neck and grabbing my forearm, complete with angry growls etc. I have never seen him do this to a human. I had to go to the ER as he ripped up the flesh under the skin ie. not just puncture wounds. I had to have 14 stitches.
What to do? I am not sure I can trust him anymore. The only think I can think of is that he was not feeling good, perhaps in pain, and he just reacted. He has been fine with me today.
Still in pain, with very restricted use of that arm and hand.
Suggestions?
Peter

Peter,by all means get some advice from your vet before considering putting him down.I had a good dog years ago that had a percentage of wolf in him + when he turned 5 he got really mean. I did have to put him down.I had no choice. Call your vet 1st.

Hmmm, was there anything going on with the boy?
Dog was on watch/guard duty. Even though your dog, and for years.

Don't let the law nor your VET know or they'll "put him down" once is all they need to learn of. BTDT too.

Two main things I can suggest: Watch him mighty close and be willing and ready to do the deed if he attacks again.

And: keep REAL close watch on those main veins on the inside of your upper arm. Any pinkness,
get to the dr quick and get some Cipro if nothing else milder works, that's one of the best infection meds I've taken. Too many times
and for serious things too.

Wife kept collecting dogs, all kinds and sizes. One was 105lbs, a german shep and husky mix wouldn't let him alone. Had the house divided up to keep them apart. It's mighty hard to separate three big dogs chewing on each other. One in each hand, and the third one's still going at it and you WILL get bit too.

Out in the yard, the shepard I'd toss him over the back fence and before I could grab the others, he'd jumped back a couple times before I "got his attention" with a fist to the face. That and getting thrown back out made him stop.

Running with or raising a "herd of dogs". You've GOT to be the LEADER of the pack or they'll eat you up. They will anyway just by challenging you for lead now and then. You cannot show you're afraid to get chewed on. Just know it's gonna happen and you MUST end up in charge even if bleeding.

Sounds like you did the worst thing you could do when he bit. You jerked your arm and torn the tissue by doing so. Best thing to do is grab DEEP in the throat and squeeze hard. That will get the message across that you intend to win. I'd also keep a .22 handy just in case. Seldom this happens just once.

Here's what I found. You cannot beat a dog hard enough short of killing them in order to make them release their jaw grip. You can make 'em by getting as deep a hold on the throat as possible and applying grip enough to make them let loose. That and a .22 to the head have been the only ways I've found that will work.

Be mighty careful with him around the kids and wife. They can't stand to be chewed on like we can. Even with us, it sure ain't fun. Worst part of a big dog is they can bite hard enough to break bones.

Main thing: Don't show him you're afraid of him. Make him understand: "you son of a bitch if bite me or anyone else again you're dead!" and do it. Don't hesitate even an instant.

Good luck on the war zone and healing up without infection.

George

I’d get the vet involved.

Sudden changes in behavior could be epilepsy, brain tumor, or stroke.

That he’s been a good dog for years says something is going on there. I could see a reflex nip or such being startled, this sounds worse.

Good luck with him!

And you should be on an antibiotic for a bite now. Preferably something like Augmentin if you are not penicillin allergic. Ice/cold will keep the swelling down some.

Without knowing the exact age of the dog I would take him to the vet and see about putting him down.

Imagine if he had gotten ahold of a child!!

Although a dog might bite reflexively if startled, they usually let go immediately when they recognize family. The fact that this dog continued to bite and growl, would make me leery of ever trusting him again.

My neighbor had a black lab that became aggressive. I recommended that he either have a professional trainer wort with the dog or have him put down.

He refused and a couple weeks later the dog ruined the face of his young daughter. Then he had the dog put down.

BH63

Thank you gentlemen!
I am not going to put down (or shoot) my companion and family member of 11 years without trying to find out what could have caused this aberrant behavior, so a visit to the vet is the first step. In the mean time we are instituting precautions in handling Bailey until we reach a determination. Obviously the safety of my grandson is a major issue.
So, thanks again to all respondents as well as to Nitro Express!
Peter.

Is he protective of your grandson? Even if he is he must recognize he is subordinate to you.

Without getting into it here, look at a copy of William Koehler's book "Attack Dog Training". There is a section in it about how to deal with attack dogs who want to chew on the handler. It is humane, non lethal and effective. I have used the techniques on a couple of my dogs as well as a couple others belonging to acquaintances who requested help, very much like you have. I love and care well for my dogs, but they have no doubt I am the alpha of the pack.

As have been mentioned, it could also be a physical problem with the dog.

Please let us know how things go.

WY, I think that was the cause of it, but have no real way of knowing. My grandson spends several days a week with us, but is not with us full time. I agree that he should be subordinate to me. Bailey is now 12 years old, and has been with us for 11 of those years. His eyesight is going, but presumably his sense of smell is OK. I don't really know. He is not young any more.
Your advice is appreciated. I had a Chesapeake Bay Retriever that I asked for help on this forum for. He turned out to be a amazing dog, but died of Cushings disease.
Peter

In the OP you seemed to indicate you've had the dog 7-8 years, now you say you have had him for 11 years.

A black lab at 11+ years is just about at the end of his natural lifespan.

At that age, he could be suffering from several different brain issues.

At any rate, if you keep him, please be careful.

A dog can ruin a person's face in a split second.

No matter how much you love the dog, it is not worth ruining someone else's life over.

I have a neighbor that takes in rescue dogs. Some of them are dangerous. One got into my backyard once and tried to attack me. The only reason that dog survived was that I didn't have my .380 auto on me.

After that, I put a couple of spears on my back porch. If another dog comes after me, I will skewer the SOB, no questions asked.

I love dogs, but they have to be trained and safe.

JMO

BH63

With the age of the dog he could be having issues with his brain. They can get dementia and also brain tumors. I had a GSD do that. He became very aggressive and would have been dangerous if I had not had him checked for a problem. It was his brain.

That may not be the case with your lab. You mention his eyesight is going? Perhaps he could not see you when you put your hand on him? Something to ponder but I would invest in a visit to the vet if it were my dog.

I hope you heal up quickly.

Well this is a toughy in regards to the emotions involved. As a dog handler in the military for 25 years this would not of ended well for the dog if it was mine.

If my work dog did that his world would come crashing down on him. Same as my home dog. Once you've healed up I would set him up. Same sort of situation. Get some protection for your arms and do the same thing. If he has another crack...hammer him. Think of what another dog would do if attacked.

If it was mine and he does the same thing (considering you have kids in the house) I would put him down straight away.

My thoughts only. You can't muck around with kids in the house.

I expect that you sternly commanded the dog then promptly leaned over him -a threat display - then reached for the collar while still leaning over him - further signs of aggression. He probably bit you because you represented a threat to both him and the grandson.

I would not kill your dog over this. Better to try to better understand him. BTW, many vets know little about dogs and dog behavior.

Alec, the first command was a "request" in a fairly normal tone of voice. he looked up at me and ignored me! My second request was firmer and he should have known I meant it. Then I reached down and he grabbed me!. Now, this was not a scare you off bite! he meant business and did not let go. If he had done that to an intruder I would have been proud of him! Steps:
Visit to the vet
Careful consideration to his demeanor and reaction to inputs from me or others. This to see if any of his senses are impaired.
No surprises.
Instead of grabbing his collar, clip on his leash and get him to do what I want.
Once things have settled down then a restaging of the event with suitable protection just in case.
Several have commented that his action can be seen as protective, and this makes perfect sense although he has not shown this behavior before. We have to be aware of this possibility/probability.
As I said, he has been with me for 11 years now, is 12 years old, and I am NOT going to throw him away like a broken utensil. He deserves better.
Peter

Put him down he can’t be trusted anymore. He is a danger and is unpredictable. You’ll never get inside a dogs head to figure out why he did what he did. If he did it once he’ll do it again

Fairly common reaction of a dog having a seizer. When they first come out of it they don't have a clue, a few minutes later they are normal. Yours was probably just coming out of it that's why it did not respond to your call. It did not know who you were or what you were going to do. That's why it bit. Mine had them in mid to later life. You can try drugs. I just could not trust him around my Grandchildren. Sorry, but there will always be another dog.

Neurological treatment is nearly impossible from your vet. I had an Italian Spinoni that had seizures. My vet prescribed the old standbys that helped little. I finally took her to two board certified neurological vets and had little success and wound up making a trip to the Ohio State vet school and also had a work up at University of Pa.
When she came out of a seizure she was frightened and needed some time to respond.
This was three years ago and if today I would investigate with my specialist a medical marijuana. The ingredients were so inconsistent three years ago it was not a consideration. Things are better now. Good luck!

each to their own
for me --
I would put the dog down

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
each to their own
for me --
I would put the dog down

Plus one

How's the arm doing?

Been to the vet like the others said to
yet?

How long has it been?
Know we want to hear what you've learned.

George

Thanks for checking George! I still have the stitches in. They should have come out yesterday (Friday, 7-10 days), but the earliest I could get an appointment with my GP is next Wednesday!!
Now, the dog. I have not taken him to the vet yet. I have been observing him much more carefully. He does have serious problems with his eyesight. He might have cataracts. He doesn't bump into things, but is very careful and slow navigating. He is also quite deaf. I have no way of checking his sense of smell. Where food is concerned, there does not seem to be any problems. I have examined him fairly carefully and do not see any pain locations near his neck. He still sleeps right next to the bed, on my side. I make sure not to step on him if I get up in the middle of the night! He does have skin problems and I am giving him Benadryl which seems to help a lot with the scratching. I also thought he might have worms, so I have given him a de-wormer. So, probably more than you guys want to hear, but, bottom line is, no smoking gun. We continue to be careful when around him ie. make sure he knows I am approaching. Make sure he is awake when I pet him.
I tend to agree that he was probably defending my grandson against a potential unknown assailant if he did not see or hear me clearly. Smell, I don't understand why he did not know me. He is a good guard dog. Always the first to bark or otherwise alarm. He is a good dog!
BTW, the event took place Tuesday, a week ago, about 10 pm at night. I went to the ER. Got back home around 2:30 am. Went to one of these urgent care places last Friday, because I wasn't sure that one of the wounds was healing properly. They put a couple of "wound closure" strips on it, took a culture and gave me even more antibiotics. Culture results came back today, negative.
Peter.

How long have you been giving him Benadryl?

In people it can have some very odd reactions, and I was told by my vet not to use it on my lab. She has had some dogs that got very bizarre behaviors from it, and has me using some sort of veterinary antihistamine along with allergy drops (a hunting dog that’s allergic to pretty much every sort of grass, who’d have thought it?)

Kind of interesting for a post entity “Need some help ...” that you ignore every bit of advice given. LOL

Still I hope it works out with the dog.

BH63

Buffhunter, the great thing about advice is that you can choose whether to accept it or not. I did NOT accept the advice to kill my dog. It, of course, had already occurred to me while I was in the ER waiting to get stitched up, so it was not unexpected, but, upon consideration we decided to adjust our behavior, take the dog less for granted, and be on top of developing situations. So far, we have been successful, but are under no illusions about the future. Vigilance is the price we pay, but, for us, it is worth it.
crbutler, on the Benadryl, we have only just started it, so, less than a week. I give him 2 25mg. tablets a day. Sometimes 2 in the am, other times 1 in the am and 1 in the pm. The supposed dosage is 1 mg. for each pound of weight, so this estimates him at 50 pounds. He is probably 55 pounds. IF he is not scratching, then I don't give it too him. I don't like the idea of long term medications as one never knows the side effects. So far, so good. He seems much more comfortable.
Peter.

Been raising and training dogs from Bullmastiffs to Border Terriers, Deuthsch-Drahthaar and mny in between. Dogs that will attack like that after years of ownership have a screw loose. Could be a brain tumor, hormone or aging problems.

Right now the dog is a liability. I would put the dog down. No dog is worth stitches on me or someone else.

Peter:

I have a 14y/o female Schipperke that's having trouble seeing from cataracts. She's nearly as deaf as I am too. she's bad enough I can step over and around her head and she don't wake up a lot of times.

Friendliest dog in town. I've had her about 7 years or so. Only once I've seen her snap at another dog that was in her face too much. I scolded her and she went the other way.

Very good watch dog til her hearing has started to fail. Now she don't hear the bell, if folks knock, or drive by and she see's them. Barks like always.

I leave the front door open during the day so she can come and go as she pleases. Much of the time she's just laying out on the front lawn. Midnight seldom goes further than in the neighbors yard, they don't mind.

Am I correct that when Baily bit you, that you pulled back to get away? I've done the same thing til I learned not to as it rips things worse. I usually infect too.

I'm sure you know his time is getting short. Prepare the family that he'll be gone before long.

Best wishes to all of you. Just don't prolong his suffering if he is.

George

quote:

Originally posted by JonP:
Been raising and training dogs from Bullmastiffs to Border Terriers, Deuthsch-Drahthaar and mny in between. Dogs that will attack like that after years of ownership have a screw loose. Could be a brain tumor, hormone or aging problems.

Right now the dog is a liability. I would put the dog down. No dog is worth stitches on me or someone else.

Correct life is to short to but up with a bad dog.

quote:

I'm sure you know his time is getting short. Prepare the family that he'll be gone before long.

Thank you George. Yes I know. I think maybe a year or so. I want to make it a good year for him. The best I can. It has always been my job to do this, but it never gets any easier for me.
Peter.

Yep, I know how that feels. There's
nine buried in the back yard with likely
12-15 cats. Pets of the late wife's.

The rest of 'em, I trashed!

Hang in there, when he shows how miserable
he is, it's time regardless of how YOU feel.
Don't make him suffer in order to just delay
the matter.

George

Peter,

I am glad that the dog seems to be better.

I know killing a cherished family pet is one of the hardest things I've ever done (and I've shot people).

But having seen a neighbor's little girl get horribly maimed, I tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to animals that can hurt someone.

Hope everything continues to work out.

BH63

Thanks BH63. The dogs are indoor dogs, and when outside, they are on a leash. After the incident, we do not have other kids over unless the dogs are locked in another room. It IS a risk, but one that I think we can manage. We will see.
Right now, it is the evening of July 4th and the dogs are hiding (from the fireworks) in one of the bedrooms!
Peter.

Peter:
]
Five months later, how's things??

When I get sewn up, unless there's a problem.
I generally take them out myself. Same on the
dogs. I've been around dogs and stock all my
life so have put 'em in many a time and taken
lots more out on both. Vets have checked my
work several times and said I did good.

I tried to correct above where I said Midnight was 14, she's 13. site won't let me back in the
post.

George

It was my wife’s dog and then my dog; before that he belong to my son. I would not have put up with the dog had it not been one of the hardest working dogs I have ever been
around. The dog had the ability to work himself in to ever activity.

One day a policeman and a special branch man knocked on the door, seems they wanted to talk to my wife about her dog. Both policemen were surprised to see her big brown dog setting next to her. They went on to explain a reign or terror going on in a shopping center in the neighbor hood. Basically they described a dog that loved everyone but was loved by none.

My wife knew she could not look down at the dog because he was one of those that could not hide guilt. They left; my wife went into the back yard and found an escape route. And then my wife started to think about the events leading up to the visit by the two policemen.

Anyhow her big dog got into trouble and then made a mad dash to the house; he hit the escape hole and made it to the patio door with a thud and a bell ring. When the dog wanted in he shook a bell that hung on the door. It was a tie, the policemen decided the dog in the shopping center could not be her dog because he was sitting next to her and behaving like a well trained lab.

Well trained: I sent both of them to obedience school; when graduation rolled around attended the festivities. The instructor reminded me he warned me about the dog and then he said something about knowing she was going to be the trainer. I asked him what did that mean? He said “they both failed”.

My wife and I raised wild birds, the big dog made it easy, when he left the house the birds left with him. When he hit the bell at the back door the birds followed him in. We had two doves that we released thinking they would keep going. We must have traveled over 50 miles when we released them. Our two children kept saying something like; “I never knew birds could travel that fast”. Once I realized what they were talking about I assured them the 2 doves they were watching were not our doves. Sure enough, we were caught by a few stop lights, the doves beat us home. We had one of the doves for 27 years.

F. Guffey

George, I am sorry I missed your post back in December. Things are going well with both dogs. The one that bit me is still going strong but his hearing, sight and sound are going slowly. And he is slow on the walk, but I take 'em both out twice every day, for a walk, pee and poop. I am careful around Bailey when he is asleep as he wakes up with a start when I touch him (Calling his name when he is asleep has limited results!) He still thinks it is his job to sleep in the grandson's room until we go to bed, then he comes into our room. I forgave him long ago. He is a GOOD dog!
Peter

It's over. Last night Bailey had two seizures. After the first one he seemed to be OK, but after the second one, he was not. He wandered around, bumped into things and was not really aware of what was going on. I took him to the emergency vet. and we decided to euthanize him rather than stand helplessly by while he had another seizure.
This morning came without Bailey. I washed his bowl and it is still out. He was a GOOD DOG. But at least he had an extra year!
Peter.

Old friends are not gone until they're forgotten.

Thank you rikkochet! Bailey will not be forgotten. Even when we are gone, my grandson who is now 10, and grew up with him, will remember him!
Peter.

That’s too bad, Peter.

Dogs just don’t live long enough.

Thanks cr! We still have the other one, Tenley, and she now gets a LOT of affection and attention. Bailey's bowl is still out there in it's usual place!
Peter.