Looking forward to reading about it in TVHM John.

You know there was an article in Tactical Shooter magazine a number of years ago where a guy got ahold of blank turret housings from Leupold and made his own DITY BDC turret using a rod about the same size as the inside of the housing, and he just stammped it and painted it. Thought it was pretty neat honestly. Still have the article--if anybody's interested drop me a PM--and i'll send a copy.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Who cares about the true MOA reading? Aren't you basing your adjustments on real life shooting and not some ballistics program?
QUOTE]

I care about true MOA readings!
I put alot of time and effort into running in rifles,setting up rifles, load develpoment, chronying,component prep the list goes on as we all know, and this is before I even go hunting!

Personally I want to know that the values that I dail on my scope is the true value, and after all my time that I put into the other things Im dammed if im going to be let down by a inferior component

I use the "shooter" program For my 6.5-284, 284WIN and my 338 Lapua, the more accurate information you can give the program to your "real life" shooting the more accurate the information you get out.
I will admit there is some parameters that only experience (aka real life) can teach you, for example the effects of wind which is traveling up a face, you have to treat that wind as a windage value for your elevation.
I have found balistic programs to be an essential part of modern long range hunting, the more preperation I can do to ensure a quick death the better.
My moto I absolutly live by is "failing to prepare is preparing to fail!"

I have noticed it seems to be a bit of a point n laugh camp on this forum about the in field use of PDA or PPC balistic programs.. why? "whiile your mucking around on your toy, Im shooting" alright then, IMHO this is not the essence of long range hunting/shooting.
Isnt it the precision and the first round hit/X ring that we are all chasing, dont be scared of technolgy, use it, it may surprise you.

Anyway, Personally no I do not own a March scope, why? The warrenty, thats all. Ive had a play,look n fiddle they seem very good
Alot of guys I know have them,love em, clear, precise/positive clicks, fantstic zero stop system, all as good as nightforce without the weight.
Interested to hear your thoughts on them?

Regards Runas

QUOTE]

Yes, they return to -0-

Have the knobs installed and learn to use them; you'll never look back. The VX3 in the banner pic has target knobs from the factory. I have another just like it but 40mm objective that I sent to the factory like you are. I had the knobs installed.

For all of those who've posted that the Leupold adjustments do not move the reticle in actual MOA, you have something wrong with the scope.

My gunsmith has a precision scope mounting system that is about as fool proof as it gets. The scope is perfectly mounted and leveled on a jig. It is then sighted at a precisely marked board across the parking lot at a precisely measured distance.

It is marked in MOA and mRad. The scope can then be evaluated for total travel and click value accuracy.


The scope on the banner pic is on my new .264 Win Mag. After developing the load, I plugged the load parameters into my ballistic program and set off to the range to check drop data. At about 550 yards, I had to start giving more elevation to make hits than the program said. At 760, it was up to 1 1/2 MOA more.

I played with the program inputs for a while and tweaked the values and got an accurate output for drop, but the values were not even close to actual.

There had to be something else wrong.

We've been seeing a ton of problems with scopes recently, so I decided to swing by the shop and put the scope on the jig. It returns to -0- fine but was screwed up for click values the further out you dialed.

I sent the scope back to Leupold and they replaced the erector system. It functions flawlessly and as advertised now as I checked it for funciton on the jig.

Any of you who have noticed a problem should send it back; it will be fixed free of charge. Leupold scopes work and they stand behind them.[/QUOTE]

That is gold! and not surprising.
the most incredible moment for me is when we had 3 rigs at the range, my 338 Lapua, a 338 Edge and a 300 RUM ALL WITH THE SAME SCOPE, ALL THREE SCOPES were exactlty wrong at the same revolutions,so what does that tell you, at least theyre consistant
Dont get me wrong I like Luepolds, I have 4 of them, none on my dedicated long range rigs.

RUNAS

Runas--got a buddy of mine that runs JBM on an IPOD Touch, and had to give the 87 V-Max a G7 Drag Function value to get his AR-10 243 drops to match under the air density he was shooting in to verify his ballistic profile.

I spotted for him 2 seasons ago when he killed a 785-yd. coyote using his 6.5-20 VX-III turrets and handheld. He calls into the local airport for air density changes several times a day. There's nothing wrong with that system as far as i can see really--In fact when air density is in a constant state of change, going beyond 600 or so--it's not a bad idea to put those tools to work.

sscoyote; I bet ya buddy was chuffed with that shot, I think Id get really into predator hunting if we had any here.

I use a Kestral 3500 weather staion, good for alt,baro pressure,humidity, the essentials really, yeah it measures wind speed, where you are, but I use it as a tool get a grasp on how things are effected by wind to guage wind speed down range.
And wind still gives me a spanking once and while

Sorry hijacking thread a bit here,

Luepolds do return to zero!

RUNAS

Thanks men for all the insight.

I think I need to take the plunge into dialing for distance. Currently, I have no experience (or confidence) in altering my zero. It appears that my skepticism is unwarranted and I need to give it a try.

Here's a couple of friends demonstrating team work during target engagement. At the SRM you are your team but you engage the same way. I don't know anyone who "holds over and hopes".

Everyone dials

Scopes return to -0- because they work

Thanks RCM,

Actually, I've become a fan of ballistic reticles for hunting. I'm just considering branching out to increase my range (on non-living targets). My reluctance has been a (seemingly) unfounded fear of fiddling with my zero and have it return. It looks like I need to just do it, practice and gain confidence.

quote:

My reluctance has been a (seemingly) unfounded fear of fiddling with my zero and have it return.

Once upon a time, that fear was well founded. But scopes today are not what they were even 30 years ago. I don't think granddad has a single scope that would return to zero, but my modern scopes will. We can all thank the engineers that made dialing possible.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:
Everyone dials

Scopes return to -0- because they work

Rick,

I assume you mean that no one holds over, you are talking about a simple crosshair or duplex reticle? At our two local sniper/tactical matches we have each month, have COF where multiple steel at varying distances in random order must not only be hit but with least amount of time weighing in on the final score. With either my NP-R1 (1 MOA hash marks) or NP-R2 (2 MOA hash marks) Nightforce reticles I can hit upto 5 different targets within about 20-25 seconds. Dialing each distance takes me upwards of 1 minute. Distances upto 647 yds.

Alan

GSSP,

I'm talking mainly about the Sporting Rifle Match. You have 4 minutes to lay down and kill 6 targets from 200 to 900 yards on each station.

I shoot tactical/precision as well and stages are designed where holding over and under with a midrange -0- is an advantage.

Yet some of the best I know only dial.

I think you need to be comfortable with both and know when to use either for best results.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:

I think you need to be comfortable with both and know when to use either for best results.

Well said!