Does this stuff shoot well in anyone's TRG?

Norma Match USA 338 LAPUA 300 GR HPBT 20 RDS (10185212)

I have a TRG on layaway, and I am excited about getting set up. I have a lot of once fired Norma brass, and a ton of bullets, but as of right now we do not have a place to reload in the house, and it's 110-130 F in my garage right now.

What is the listed velocity?

Berger's website now has loading data for six or seven big 338's. The big three, Edge, Lapua, and 338-378 Wbee all run from 2650 to 2700 fps.

I was going that route, until I did the math and found I could have one built for about a grand less. That is buying my scope and components.

Stiller P1000, and a Pence cut-rifled 33" barrel.

Let us know how it shoots.

Rich

I got mine for a better price than I could build one for. TRG-42, 30mm Sako ring mount, Sako brake and a Sako bipod, plus a Leupold Mark 4.

If a guy just wanted a cheap one, he could buy a Savage single shot for $1000.

Unless you are building a 30-40 pound rifle, you are really going to have a lot of whip in a 33 inch barrel.

what if it is 1.5" and fluted?

Most of the 338 LMs being shot at 1000yds have at least a 30" barrel, and a lot of them are 32".

Beware the amount of torque in a 30 in barrel is pretty high. Often high enough to pull the barrel out of the action.

We killed off a Barnard 7.82 Warbird 1000 yard rifle that way in Australia.

In my experience, I'll pass. Other experiences may differ.

One good aspect is that the 338 Lapua doesn't have near the pressure the higher 30-378 and 7.82 Warbirds do. Might work.
I'd build a 375 or 408 CT that way.

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
what if it is 1.5" and fluted?

Most of the 338 LMs being shot at 1000yds have at least a 30" barrel, and a lot of them are 32".

Also why would you build a fluted barrel if you are wanting to shoot 1000 yards with it?

I have been working on my understanding of what fluting does, and right now I am giving it a pass. I have two rifles that have fluted barrels, one is a Sauer 308 with an 18 inch barrel. The other is a factory 700 Sendaro in 7mm. When that 7mm barrel is gone in about 1400 rounds it's replacement will be a Proof carbon fiber one.

Wyoming, I read your comment about the generated torque unscrewing the barrel. I wonder if the rifling twist shouldn't be reversed the other way so that it continually tightens instead? Just a thought...

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
what if it is 1.5" and fluted?

Most of the 338 LMs being shot at 1000yds have at least a 30" barrel, and a lot of them are 32".

Also why would you build a fluted barrel if you are wanting to shoot 1000 yards with it?

I have been working on my understanding of what fluting does, and right now I am giving it a pass. I have two rifles that have fluted barrels, one is a Sauer 308 with an 18 inch barrel. The other is a factory 700 Sendaro in 7mm. When that 7mm barrel is gone in about 1400 rounds it's replacement will be a Proof carbon fiber one.

On the flip side why NOT flute your barrel if it reduces weight?

It induces stresses in the steel.

How many FLUTED 6mm PPCs, 6 BR, 6.5x57, 6mm Swiss Match rifles do you see in CISM, fly shoots, BR shoots, 1000 yard competitions or anything else?

Beyond the added cost of fluting, which overall can be quantified in a per shot cost, as most dedicated target rifles will be shot several thousand rounds per year, why do it if it makes it less accurate?

It looks cool, and reduces a little bit of weight. Beyond that I am not sure the added cost for someone like me who wears out barrels regularly and the probability of steel distortion is worth it.

For some it will be worth it.

quote:

How many FLUTED 6mm PPCs, 6 BR, 6.5x57, 6mm Swiss Match rifles do you see in CISM, fly shoots, BR shoots, 1000 yard competitions or anything else?

There is the question!


.

I sat underneath the awning of Ed Shilen's motorhome one year at the Super Shoot, visiting with Ed, Alan Hall, and a few others; including this shooter from WVA named Tony Boyer and his wife Faye.

Ed was expounding on the evils of fluting a barrel. He stated that Shilen would not flute a barrel for a customer. The discussion went on for the best part of an hour, until Tony Boyer said (if I may paraphrase) "Ed, my gunsmith flutes every barrel you send me and Faye before we even fire the first round. The barrels we are shooting this week (of yours) are all fluted..."
That was about all on the subject. Tony Boyer had open heart surgery four weeks before the SS, and then won it.

So: the most legendary bench rest shooter in the history of BR flutes his barrels.

I spoke with Dan Lilja the last time he was down shooting Rockchucks. The rifle barrels he shot were all fluted. I asked him why more shooters don't flute. My thought was that it made a stiffer barrel, and helped with cooling, as well as providing either a larger diameter barrel, or a longer one for a given weight.

His response was that if not done properly, the pressure cutting each flute, one at a time, could cause barrel stress due to the spring back being uneven. His suggestions was to cryo his barrels after fluting to relieve them. I've owned five, still own two, and that is what I did with the action attached.

Most of you know, that for the past twenty-plus years Savage has promoted fluted barrels on their heavy-barrel rifles as accuracy enhancing and to provide a more consistent grouping capability. Since that costs money, how can they justify the expense? Surely not for cosmetics.

Carl Hildebrandt was the chief engineer in charge of R&D. I was touring the factory just after they started offering fluting. When I asked him, he simply offered me the opportunity to see the process. We walk over to the final stage, and select four rifles, and a second barrel for each. We grab a couple boxes of factory 223, .22-250, 220 Swift, and 308 Win ammunition and head to the tunnel. None of the barrels are fluted. We fire all of them at 100yds, in random order. Then we switch barrels, and shoot again. Same results, all were under an inch for five shots. We spent about three hours, just switching barrels around at random. We even switch bolt heads and do the same with the two 223 barrels. Then we take the rifles back upstairs to the custom shop, and mount the barreled actions in this fancy jig. Then, Carl shows me his "Magic Machine". Ron Coburn was the CEO of Savage, and he and Carl would occasionally go to auction sales to look for machinery. When H&R went out of business, all the machinery got sold at auction. Carl looks this one piece of machinery over at length, turns to Ron, and says "Buy me this..." Ron does, they haul it back to Savage, and Carl and the machine disappear into the bowels of the custom shop. A couple days later, he invites Ron down and shows him the machine mounted on a frame, and a barreled action, with unfluted barrel mounted on to a fixture. The "Magic Machine" is the little milling tool H&R used to cut all six flutes at once in the little 22 revolvers they offered. Hydraulic pressure is evenly distributed to all six cutters, and they are cut at the same time. No tolerances in the flutes cut in the barrel. The show was all about Ron randomly selecting any heavy barrel rifle, taking it down to the tunnel, and firing a couple five-shot groups with it. Then he brought it back to R&D where Carl set it up and fluted it. They went right back down to the tunnel, and Ron shot it again. In EVERY case, the fluted barrels shot smaller groups. Every case.

The next year, I am visiting Savage, and Carl lets me in on the secret. They offered to build me a rifle, and let me do the assembly for a magazine article. We would fit a barrel, and go shoot it, then flute it, then shoot it some more. Six different barrels, all different calibers. I had all three bolt heads, on a single shot rifle. From 223 to 300 WM. I had this great idea to write a a killer article on building a multi-barrel rifle for all things other than real serious competition. Savage was opposed to the idea, because they worried that not everyone would be as careful switching barrels and bolt heads,setting head space; and that some one would get injured, and sue them. They were probably right, so the article just sat in my hard drive.

So what most consider the most accurate factory rifles manufactured here are fluted for accuracy.

The answer I come up with as to why fluting is not more popular is twofold:
1. cost
2. the inability to avoid uneven stress by gunsmiths.

I would suggest two as the most common answer.

Now, you know...

Rich

Gunwerks, Shilen and several other manufacturers refuse to flute.

I know of Boyer, he's one of the best BR shooters in the world.

I own a couple, but I'd prefer them unfluted. The risk is far greater that they won't shoot, than they will.

quote:

Originally posted by eddiel4:
Wyoming, I read your comment about the generated torque unscrewing the barrel. I wonder if the rifling twist shouldn't be reversed the other way so that it continually tightens instead? Just a thought...

It was a Barnard, but it isn't the first rifle I have heard about. A HS Precision rifle did the same thing to a friend and it was a 1 in 10 308 with a 26 inch barrel.

that tells me more about their capabilities than fluting...