Hello friends,

I'm trying to hone my technique at the bench & want to improve my skill in the field when shooting at deer & elk/moose sized targets.

I've made some good shots on game out to about 270 yards; I've also learned when to say "that's too far for me right now."

Ideally, I'd like to become proficient in shooting to 450...maybe 500 yards under IDEAL field conditions - translating to 300 to 350 as conditions deteriorate.

All that is a prelude to my first question: I see people on-line/on tv using their left arm (non-trigger) not holding the forearm of the rifle, but wrapping their arm back onto their trigger arm & "craddeling" the rifle. This allows the rifle to recoil without any hinderance on the forearm, yes?

Of course, the alternative is to hold the forearm w/ the off-hand.

Obviously, in the field, most shots will be taken with your off-hand holding the forearm. Does it make sense, then, to shoot off the bench without holding the forearm?

Am I overthinking all this?

How do you shoot off the bench vs. the field, and why?

P.s. I usually shoot a .270 model 70 with a 2x7 Leupold.

Many thanks,

friar

First off, get off the bench, good lord did not put tables out there in the field for us to shoot with. Second, get a good bipod, (Harris/atlas) learn how to load a bipod properly. That's for shooting prone. Then get a good set of shooting sticks. Practice with them. Most good long range rigs have a hook on on the rear of the stock, it's right in from of where your rear wedge bag goes, that's the place for your non trigger hand. I might sujest spending some time at Snipers Hide forem, they have a great section on extended range shooting. Many former Army/USMC guys who carried a boltgun for a living.

From the prone I shoot my rifle over a pack with my off hand and sand sock under the butt.

If I have to shoot from a position higher than that I carry a set-up similar to what I pack in combat. I keep a tripod on the outside of my pack (day pack or big bag doesn't matter. I even lash one to my Rancho Safari Cat Quiver II when the quiver is off and gun season is in) and carry a mono-pod like a hiking stick (only when hunting. it stays on bag with tripod during deployments).

If a quick shot arrises the mono-pod gets used. I can use it standing like I did on this year's buck. I can lean it against something and use my hand as a wedge rest.

Where it all comes together is if you have to take a long shot standing, kneeling, or sitting. I set up the tripod with a padded V-yoke as my front rest. I shorten the monopod which also has a V-yoke. It acts like a sand sock from a higher position. This requires more time and a deliberate setup but can be use to get rock steady for long shots over low obstructions.

Thanks Alaska & 7mm

From your comments, I take it the best way to learn repeatability in set-up/positioning is to let the forearm recoil freely.

Of course, the bench only gets one so far - and probably not near as far as a person might think; hence, my question in the first place

Part of what got me thinking is that I used a monopod one afternoon in Montana last November. I was sitting on a fairly steep hillside, nestled into some rocks and brush.

Using my left knee to brace the elbow of my left arm, with my left hand holding the monopod yoke & rifle's forearm made a bi-pod of sorts. I rested my right elbow on my right knee.

I was surprised at how stable the position was, and found I could easily hold on small targets on the opposing hillside, anywhere from 300 to 500 yards - and all with only 7x power.

Thanks for the advice!

friar

I used to use the free recoil technique on everything up to my 375. I did notice over time however, that when using field rests (other than shooting sticks) that my POI with some rifles was significantly different than when sighting in from the bench, or well supported rests like a pack from a prone position.

So now I tend to grip the forestock with most cartridges, just to minimize variation from range to hunting fields. With rifles that mostly get shot at the range or from long-range/tactical type position, I still often use the free-recoil technique. So no "one size fits all" solution for me.

I read this article recently, and I think the author makes some good points.

Hold That Forend!

I only 1. work up a load or 2. mount/check the zero on my scope on the bench. I probably have pulled the trigger under a dozen times in the past few years at the range, and a couple of those just once.

In the field I use sticks, and prefer the Stony Point Expeditions because the unopened/base length is 36", which is perfect for a kneeling position. You can get down in position and pull the trigger in the blink of an eye without fumbling around extending legs.

I go left hand palm out towards the target, sticks/yoke grasped by the third-fifth fingers, rifle between the thumb and index.

Non hunting shooter here but you might want to try looking for some service rifle shooters. Try out some different positions; off hand, sitting, prone. From there adapt those into usable positions for you. Small bore positions may help also.

http://ct.thecmp.org/app/v1/index.php should be a list of CMP clubs in Nebraska.

Edit: The link will take you to Competition Tracker from there th eforth option down will take you to the club search.

Also, you may get some hints at an Appleseed. When I got back into shooting I lucked out and met an older Navy Shooter who is a Distinguished Rifle shooter. Lots of good coaching.

Thanks for the tip Sam, and everyone for the good ideas!

There's a gentleman the next town up from me who's developed a private range. He does a lot of work/volunteering for law-enforcement professionals, and is retired from some branch of enforcement. He's been very friendly and a good help, and I think I'm at the point now where I'll open a membership at his range. I suspect he's retired military, maybe in some capacity as a sniper, but of course doesn't say too much about that, and makes only oblique references. Naturally, I don't ask too many questions about his former line of work.

Thanks for the tips, and keep them coming!

friar

p.s. I have a friend who's about 70 lbs & 6" bigger than me. When he shoots my .270, the poi is 3" higher than when I shoot (at 300 yards). Is this simply an illustration of how different people shoot the same load/rifle to a different poi?

If I can shoot prone I always prefer that. Left hand then supports the rear or a rear bag.

Offhand if it's a shot where I get plenty of time, tuck the elbow into your hip bone and open palm on the bottom of the stock around the magazine/trigger guard area.

Sitting, I try to have a sling and wrap it around the arm, wherever my hand needs to be to get the right elevation (back further raises rifle, and vice versa), that's where it goes on the forearm.

It's really all about 2 things:

1. getting as steady as you can whether it's off a pack, your 10 gallon hat, a bipod, walking stick, offhand triple sticks, you buddy's back or a tight properly used military sling.

2. getting as close as you can. being able to shoot well under ideal conditions at 500 yards is not all that difficult with the right equipment. doing it afield in the real world (wind, mirage, huffing/puffing on animals not stapled to a target frame) is a lot different. I live and hunt in WY, a state not noted for a lot of dense cover. That said I have yet to meet an Antelope, Deer or Elk I can't get within 300 yards of by using camo cover and wind. You will get dirty, pick up some cactus spines and "get made" sometimes. BUT you probably won't shoot the leg off some noble animal deserving our respect. I am ancient and it took five stalks on five different bucks to put this speedgoat in the freezer at 90 odd paces with a 45 caliber Alex. Henry replica MZ with iron sights. That is, IMHO hunting, not long range target shooting (which I love at paper & gongs) using live targets. As the saying goes: "you a'int hunting Elk till you can smell em'."

Thanks fellas! Great advice & gives me a lot to focus on getting ready for next year.

I feel that, with practice, I'll be able to make 9 of 10 shots at 350 under field conditions, so that's my goal. One thing that is to my advantage is that I've now developed enough patience as a person, & had enough experience with situations afield as a hunter, to "know my limits". And for that, I'm glad, because it makes hunting all the more pleasurable, regardless of whether I fill the tag or not.

Thanks everyone!

friar

A modest suggestion which I used with a novice (at Western hunting) to his great advantage.
Have a friend set out 5 12" pieplates at unknown ranges from 50 to 400 yards from a field firing position. belly crawl from 50 yards back to your firing position. Have him start the stopwatch.
You have 30 seconds to set up and get off the first shot at the target he assign you (at random). Ditto the other 4. Continue until you have shot at each
Repeat this drill at first and last legal shooting light as well as midday. A variable crosswind is a good thing to have.
It is humbling but when you can hit every target every time you are approved to try a 400 yard shot.
If you cannot do it past 250, then that is your "ethical limit".
If you're shooting a modern rifle you don't need a rangefinder, mil dots or any other crap. A fixed power scope is also better unless your variable is a First focal plane. With a plain old duplex reticle, you will quickly learn "Kaintucky holdover and windage" using the thick/thin part of the duplex as a gauge. Remember big game is big and any shot in the 12" pieplate will be in the boiler room if your aiming point is close.
A benrchrest is only a tool to work up loads and get reasonably well sighted in. There is no substitute for getting your butt or belly in the dirt.

Killed at 250 yards with one shot from a 400 Whelen (hardly a flat shooter!) with a 2.5X Leupold Alaskan. It was a haul for that 350 X starting out at 2100 fps but from doing what is detailed above, I knew exactly what to expect out to 400. With it sighted in @150 yds a top of back hold took out both lungs and he laid down and died. I was shooting off my hand laid across a downed tree limb, kneeling up against on big old stump.
Good hunting !


A final myth is that you need a bug shooter rifle. Any rifle that will put the first shot to the same point of impact every time and the next 4 within a 1.5 MOA group will kill any big game animal within an ethical range envelope.

45-70, that's exactly the sort of excersize I need! Also, I used to be very mindful of where the first shot out of a cold, fouled bore would go; happily, my rifle is very consistent this way, and the next 2 shots after that are roughly moa. And heck, after 3 shots, the game's long gone anyway, and the barrel is hot to the touch!

Thanks for the suggestion - it's that kind of practice that will help me shoot under most conditions I can imagine.

One last thing - this sort of work isn't only good for out west: back in Wisconsin there's lots of logging trails where you can take a 200 or 300 yard shot, if you're ready quickly & don't have to overthink.

Many thanks!

friar