As above chaps, the next club meet is going to be at 200 and 600 yards, which is a better distance for an impatient man to shoot a ladder test with 208gr AMAXes out of a 30.06?

If you have an adequate spotting scope to accurately see the 30cal holes @ 600--

and you have the gun "sighted" with what you believe to be a similar velocity load--

and your target is large enough for the velocity variations of 4 to 5 grains of powder --

got to 600 for Mr. Audette's test

otherwise use the 200--

Typically I usually use 300--

Would be very hard to do that test since you most likely would not see bullet holes. If you have someone running down, or staying near the target I guess it could conceivably be better, but a closer range would make the process easier.

The longer the better!

I've shot them at 600 and driven to the target after each shot to mark it. Kept the truck running the whole time.

If it's a 600 yard F-Class range, Put your buddy in the pit to pull and mark the target

Thanks chaps, There will be a marker at 600 yards so spotting is no problem.

The targets are about 5 feet high also.

So it sounds like 600 if the weather is calm and 200 if it's windy?

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
So it sounds like 600 if the weather is calm and 200 if it's windy?

Wind can hose-up the results at any distance. It normally abates a bit at Dawn and Dusk, but someRanges are not open then.

A very accurate rifle, using very accurate bullets, "occasionally" needs a good bit of distance to show the best Harmonic Nodes.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
So it sounds like 600 if the weather is calm and 200 if it's windy?

Wind can hose-up the results at any distance. It normally abates a bit at Dawn and Dusk, but someRanges are not open then.

A very accurate rifle, using very accurate bullets, "occasionally" needs a good bit of distance to show the best Harmonic Nodes.

I won't be able to shoot as dusk or dawn I'm afraid.

The rifle is accurate, I'll give it a go at both bloody distances, what the hell it's only money.....

A question, do I leave it to cool between each shot or shoot say three at a go?

Barrel is usually good for 4-5 before it starts wandering but the weather is warm at the moment.

If you have time , the "colder" the better--

Question--

in this match you are preparing for--
how many shots in what length of time?

Calling it a match is overstating the case considerably, it's more like a prelude to major piss-taking in the time honoured traditions of our club.

Previous grudge matches have included vintage muzzleloaders vs modern Palma rifles but with the sighting systems swapped round by the armourer at 600 yards, Single shot BSA-Martini .22 at 200 yards vs Palma rifle with peep sights adjusted to be shooting off and the shooter to hold and compensate, generally themed around winding up the the jacket and single point sling crowd. You should have seen their faces when the armourer produced a base for a 2 Band Enfield rear sight and fitted it to the club Swing....The muzzleloaders with the diopter peep sights won btw!

I negotiated this match down to five rounds in half an hour, shooting at a minute and quarter bull at 1000 yards.

I'm not sure whether to shoot two groups or try and space it out evenly. I'll check next weekend to see which works better.

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
If you have time , the "colder" the better--...

I tend to agree with that. Just don't be in a hurry to shoot, make notes, whatever and try to be consistent.

I burn some extra time measuring CHE & PRE and then Recording the Data. But, I realize that is not a popular Task.

And of course it is also a function of how much Powder is being consumed. Smaller amounts of Powder(aka smaller cartridges) obviously Burn less Powder, which as you know equates to less Barrel Heat. So, I would shoot a 223Rem a bit quicker than a 30cal Mag or my 350RemMag.

I typically take other rifles to shoot while Barrels Cool. Shooting a 22LR at 100yds Off-Hand is great fun and really indicates if my Form and/Concentration is lacking Focus.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by DuggaBoye:
If you have time , the "colder" the better--...

I tend to agree with that. Just don't be in a hurry to shoot, make notes, whatever and try to be consistent.

I burn some extra time measuring CHE & PRE and then Recording the Data. But, I realize that is not a popular Task.

And of course it is also a function of how much Powder is being consumed. Smaller amounts of Powder(aka smaller cartridges) obviously Burn less Powder, which as you know equates to less Barrel Heat. So, I would shoot a 223Rem a bit quicker than a 30cal Mag or my 350RemMag.

I typically take other rifles to shoot while Barrels Cool. Shooting a 22LR at 100yds Off-Hand is great fun and really indicates if my Form and/Concentration is lacking Focus.

Thanks a lot guys.

I'm feverishly reloading the 208gr AMAXes in the 06 and another ladder load batch for the 308as we type.

I'll try and take as much time as I can, we all take turns to shoot at perhaps two firing points so I can slip in and out of order I'm sure.

HC, I've had a play with measuring CHE and PRE
expansion with a micrometer but am not sure I'm measuring the right things.

The Case Head Expansion is measured just above the extractor groove and the Pressure Ring Expansion is measure at the thickest part of the case web, ir the bit unsupported by the chamber?

I too am a data junkie, to be honest I don't understand how one can be a reloader and not be!

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
The Case Head Expansion is measured just above the extractor groove and the Pressure Ring Expansion is measure at the thickest part of the case web, ir the bit unsupported by the chamber? ...

I measure CHE just ahead of the Extraction Groove on Non-Belted Cases and across the Belt on Belted Cases. I measure it at one specific spot - like inline with the straight side of the " R " on cases that say "R-P".

My old buddy Clark measure inside the Extraction Groove which has a lot of Merit because it insures the Thin Blade Micrometer is in the exact same place each time.

The concept is to measure Before Firing(Record the number) and after Firing(also Record the number), and we are interested in the difference, which is the CHE.

Only a few problems with CHE:
1. The Case should be Fire Formed(shot one time) prior to beginning to read the CHE, otherwise it will mislead you.
2. Some Pressures are so Low that no CHE occurrs.
3. Occasionally the "After Firing Dimension" is SMALLER than the "Before Firing Dimension" That is because it DID NOT Expand in a Circular direction, but Ovate. So, you need a few Cases at that Level to see what it really does.

Due to those quirks, I prefer PRE:
1. It works on EVERY Case.
2. You measure one-time after Firing.
3. It is measure at the Widest Case Diameter forward of the Extraction Groove on Non-Belted Cases and at the Widest Diameter ahead of the Belt on Belted Cases.
4. Rotate the Case between the Anvils without forcing it to turn. When you locate the Widest Diameter and it will "Hang" between the Anvils without falling out, you have it. For Example, if the Pressure Ring hangs at 0.4727" but you can NOT get the Case to Hang at 0.4728" then the PRE is 0.4727".

There are a few other Tricks, but it can all be found by doing a "Find" on the Reloading Board for "CHE & PRE".

Thanks HC, will do.

I have been measuring CHE wrong, didn't realise you could only do it once to a once-fired case, but PRE I seem to have got.

Is the PRE a point with in the chamber or just outside of it?

quote:

Originally posted by Ghubert:
I have been measuring CHE wrong, didn't realise you could only do it once to a once-fired case, but PRE I seem to have got.

After the Case is "Once Fired", you can get somewhat accurate CHE readings for 4-6 shots. It depends on how HOT your Loads are. CHE is better than nothing, but it is not nearly as good as PRE.

quote:

Is the PRE a point with in the chamber or just outside of it?

PRE is located "Inside the Chamber". It is the Widest Diameter on the Case as stated in my last post - Ahead of the Belt or ahead of the Extraction Groove. If you look over on the Reloading Board, R has a thread going where he was getting Insipient Casehead Separations and Casehead Separations. He also "sectioned" a Case. When you look at it, PRE is measured across the Diameter where the Break occurrs.

PRE could happen at various distances along the Chamber, because it is Tapered and the inside of the Case begins Tapering THICKER as you approach the Casehead.(This can also be seen in R's flicks.) As the Load Increases, the PRE gets slightly larger(measured in 0.0001" increments) due to the Increased Pressure. The PRE location also moves very slightly closer toward the Bolt Face within the Chamber.