Anybody played with any of these yet?

When set up I am considering the 160gr.
It has BC of .401@3500fps, .381@2550fps, and .383@1600fps.

Another option may be the 177gr HV.
.638@3300fps, .603@2450fps, and .589@1600.

Unfortunately I have no idea how to factor in BC. Do the BC above reflect a viable bullet for long range use? I am not planning on shooting different bullets for hunting and for target shooting. Ideally one bullet for all purposes. Friend of mine wants me to consider the A-Max. What I have read so far is monometals are much more consistant than cup and core bullets or bonded bullets.

Andy

quote:

I am not planning on shooting different bullets for hunting and for target shooting. Ideally one bullet for all purposes. Friend of mine wants me to consider the A-Max. What I have read so far is monometals are much more consistant than cup and core bullets or bonded bullets.

Hey Andy,

I think we need some more information to be able to answer your question as well as possible.

What cartridge in .30 caliber are you loading for?

What animals do you want to hunt?

As far as accuracy is concerned, I don't know of any bullet that is not a copper jacketed lead core winning any long range matches.
Butch

Those bullets will be very expensive. The second one will work excellent if the BC is accurate, but I would look hard at the 208 Amax.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the GSC's are the all copper European machines bullet with the fancy "rifling bands". If they are the one's I'm thinking of, and please correct me if I am wrong, But I think they are about the same price as a swaged bullet made from solid gold. Since the expense would overly impact my trigger time, they are not something I would consider.

Andy,
The two things that Tyler and AS have brought up are what were in my mind when I asked for your clarification.

You don't want to shoot monometals at targets unless you are Donald Trump.

Tyler,
The problem is that Andy wants to shoot one bullet for targets and hunting. The A-Max is a good target bullet, but if he is gonna be hunting elk with the same round, I, and I'm sure you, wouldn't recommend that.

The other consideration is the velocity of the .30 cal cartridge. If he's shooting a .308, he might get away with using a standard cup and core for both, but if he's shooting a .30-378, a cup and core may fail on elk at 100 yards.

Since he hasn't checked in, I would simply recommend that he develop two loads, one for targets with the biggest BC target bullet and one for big game with a bonded or hunting cup and core bullet depending on what he's after.

quote:

Originally posted by drewhenrytnt:
Anybody played with any of these yet?

When set up I am considering the 160gr.
It has BC of .401@3500fps, .381@2550fps, and .383@1600fps.

Another option may be the 177gr HV.
.638@3300fps, .603@2450fps, and .589@1600.

Unfortunately I have no idea how to factor in BC. Do the BC above reflect a viable bullet for long range use? I am not planning on shooting different bullets for hunting and for target shooting. Ideally one bullet for all purposes. Friend of mine wants me to consider the A-Max. What I have read so far is monometals are much more consistant than cup and core bullets or bonded bullets.

Andy

Hi Andy,

What do you mean "factor in the BC"?

From your question on the other thread I think it might be worth going back to basics on external ballistics for a moment using the spreadsheet I sent you.

Pull up the ballistic comparator one, there is a comparison of a 300RUM with a 180gr Speer 180gr BTSP ( B.C. of .540, the highest of the common hunting bullets I could find) and compare it to the 30/378 with 208gr Amaxes ( B.C. .648) on the next tab.

Now, why did uncle Ghubert send you that particular spreadsheet, you may ask....

Well because I knew you were interested in the flattest and the fastest for the purposes of this topic.

You can plug different values in for velocity and B.C. on the spreadsheet itself and either get a value in the "Special range" box or just visually compare the two on the graph.

You'll probably see that there isn't that much difference between them, at least if one is having to dial in or hold over 46 inches for the 30/378 with amax, having to hold over or dial in 47 as in for the 300RUM is no big difference at all.

So at first glance it appears that both of these bullets, being amongst the most streamlined of their respective families would be good to go, and if an accurate load can be found, for paper punching they indeed would be.

But, as others are getting at you can't forget that although the bullet must first get there it's work isn't finished as soon as it is "in the x-ring".

My experience with Amaxs is not exactly confidence inspiring, I loaded some of the 155 gr versions at 2800 fos out of my 06 and even at 100 yards they were still disintegrating and hardly ever exiting. This performance, and some very dead deer, would be very acceptable to some but I know that I will occasionally aim for or accidentally hit bone hunting and can't accept it. I download the rather soft 150gr Speer BTSP to around 2800 in the same rifle for the same reason. Based in my experience of the two designs, if not quite weights, I would say find another bullet for hunting if you are going to be shooting at any all ranges from 5 paces to however far you're comfortable and taking the sorts of shots you are used to. If you are prepared to wait and only shoot on a good broadside presentation the frangibility of these bullets may work in your favour however.

This is because on the other hand too hard a bullet won't open up at distance and you'll be faced with the highly enjoyable prospect of tracking an animal on a minimal blood trail, starting x-hundred yards away... I do note that it is not easy to find a high BC "tough" bullet. The swift Sirocco looks tempting but we can never get any of the bloody things over here...

In summary if you want to shoot game at all ranges, you have set yourself an onerous requirment, as much wisdom as there is in the adage "Beware the man with gun ( and by extension, one load)" the same bullet will not survive a close range elk shoulder and still expand enough to be a neat killer on a 500 yard whitetail sized deer whilst being precisely made enough to win a 1000 yard benchrest competition.

Most bullets fulfil two of these categories and compromise on the last. I would think the 208 gr Amax would be the closest to what you want, just get steady and neck stuff closer.

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
Correct me if I am wrong, but the GSC's are the all copper European machines bullet with the fancy "rifling bands". If they are the one's I'm thinking of, and please correct me if I am wrong, But I think they are about the same price as a swaged bullet made from solid gold. Since the expense would overly impact my trigger time, they are not something I would consider.

You're thinking of the Lutz Moller bullets, they are about 250 euros for a hundred in 30 cal. http://lutz-moeller-jagd.de/En...ong-range-bullet.htm

The GSC are Gerald Shultz Custom hunting bullets of South Africa. They are of the Barnes type though according to that company's particular philosophy. Gerlad post on here as "Gerald" and can frequently be found on the medium bore forum arguing with Warrior!

http://www.gsgroup.co.za/02hv.html

My rifle is a 300RUM. 1-10x26"bbl.

I spend a great deal of time lurking in Big Bores and have had fun going to Hoot&Shoots since 2009. I mention Big Bores because I have been following Michael458's post on Terminal Performance and decided to check out the "other" bullets from CuttingEdgeBullets.com. They offer a low drag HPBT 180gr. Their data was developed in a rifle very similar to mine and they list a BC of .600 @ 3250fps!

Gerard lists on his site(GSCustom)minimum impact velocity for reliable expansion as 1600FPS. Assuming the only change on the spreadsheet is velocity and BC, thats a max of around 1200yds. Plenty far but, Dan at CEB says their bullet is good down to 1300 and that would theoretically gain 200yds. But are these bullets really still stabil at that distance? Or is the massive damage inflicted, as seen in photos, from the bullet tumbling in the heart/lung cavity of the body?

When I mention factoring in BC, what I am trying to determine is why does a higher BC necessarily make it a better long range bullet? No two bullets of similar weight and basic shape on the market have BCs alike. So which do you pick to experiment with? I am leaning toward CEB, cuz they are made here in USA! Most likely a 180. Even though my original plans were not to shoot less than 200gr.

My next question might offend some. Am I going to have to be as anal as the benchrest shooters in preparing my handloads? I am not trying to put all my shots in the same hole, but definitely want repeatability which I feel has as much to do with the operator as it does the machine.

Chew on that for a while

Andy

As far as animals. Varmints and pigs to start with. Maybe whitetail when I feel confident enough to do it cleanly. I have never elk hunted, but might want to one day.

Andy

quote:

You're thinking of the Lutz Moller bullets, they are about 250 euros for a hundred in 30 cal. http://lutz-moeller-jagd.de/En...ong-range-bullet.htm

Thank-you!!
Yes that's the one I was thinking of.

Andy, in my experience, the most accurate hunting bullet I've been able to find is the Nosler Ballistic Tip. The 150 grainers shoot in the .1 range out of my Hunter class bench gun. They shoot better then the Nosler Custom Comps, but I'm still not done with all my load work. I'm able to shoot 1/4-1/2 MOA out of several rifle with them. Might be what you are looking for. I'd be interested to see what you could do with the 180gr BT's out of the 300 RUM. Pigs and whitetails wouldn't stand a chance, and I wouldn't hesitate to take them elk hunting.

try the 180 grain sst. they shoot great out of my 300 rum and they are a fine hunting bullet. some will say they are too soft. but mine went through an elk from left shoulder to just in front of the right quater at 130 yards. and the b.c is dam near as high as the a max of same weight.

If you want high BC's why not look at the Berger VLD's? The "hunting" and "target" bullets look identical to me!
Peter