So my definition of a good long range gun is one that I can shoot in the field to accurately kill something at 500 yards. I am not an experienced LR shooter, but recently have been shooting a Gunwerks for our TV show, and I see the difference in that and a normal rifle. I will eventually have to return the owner Gunwerks, and I can't afford to buy one for $9000.

I don't need 1000 yards, but again would like to have a solid 500 yard gun. My project begins with a Sako A7 in .300 Win. It has the Roughneck stock, is fluted, and I topped with a Nikon Monarch 5 Advanced BDC 4x20x50 scope. I will have a turret built. I adjusted the trigger down to 2 lbs.

I have taken the gun to the range and it shoots one hole at 100 yards, I touched 2 shots at 200 and a 3rd was about an inch. That is all I have shot it. This was factory Winchester ammo with a 180 gr accubond which I really like.

I am going to try some loads with H-1000 powder and CEB 180 gr Laser bullets as well.

SO out to 200, the gun shoots pretty darn well (especially with my limited shooting ability).

It has the Sako Roughtech stock with the aluminum skeleton and is 100% free floated.

Besides trying to develop another load and when I decide on the load, get a turret, what would you gurus suggest I do to the rifle?

Firstly, $9000 for a LR rifle is ridiculous!!

My simple advice.
1. Get a Tikka T3 CTR or SuperVarmint
2. Get a better scope ( Bushnell LRHS 3-12x44 )
3. Get a McMillan A3 or A5.

The scope is very important! You need to know that the scope will repetadly "klick" for several thousands revolutions, and still be true. A simple hunting scope with an aftermarket turret is not a LR scope.


These three items. Tikka, Bushnell, McMillan, will cost you maybe $3000.

Put the rest towards ammunition.. and I would not put a shot at a animal before I had shoot a couple of thousands rounds through the rifle and know the drop and drift of the bullets.

And, I would highly suggest this youtube channel..

https://www.youtube.com/user/sierra645/videos

Not any bullshit, just showing what it actually takes to truly shoot at longer ranges.

quote:

2. Get a better scope ( Bushnell LRHS 3-12x44

The scope is very important! You need to know that the scope will repetadly "klick" for several thousands revolutions, and still be true. A simple hunting scope with an aftermarket turret is not a LR scope.

Put the rest towards ammunition.. and I would not put a shot at a animal before I had shoot a couple of thousands rounds through the rifle and know the drop and drift of the bullets.

Yes...I would get the 4.5x18 LRHS, or a bushnell elite FFP 3.x21...I have 2 of these and they are great, the scope you have will work, but not the top selection...make sure your mounts are good. I like Near mounts for Sako or weatherby rifles--they are expensive but in the long range game, they make all the difference. get a good bipod, shooting prone they make a big difference--harris, atlas ect... Get set up working in MOA or Mil/Mil I prefer the latter, but either works, just make sure you "speak the language" and stick with it. Take a class...most will do it will cost you between $800-$3000 depending on length and travel. Then shoot a bunch.. I shoot a 6.5 grendel some...mostly around 400-500 meters to sharpen the saw. The longest place I have access to is 735 yards. With a 30-378 and a 4.5x18 tac elite in near mounts...it's a chip shot...good luck in your adventure.

Handload, have a chronograph, use any quality scope with repeatable and accurate MOA turrets, and plug accurate data into a good ballistic program. JBM is free and works very well. For a 500 yard shot, the 300 win @ less than a MOA will do all you need.

Scope Test: buy a sheet of white cardboard at the store that is about 36" tall by 24" wide. Draw a line down the middle. Four inches up from the bottom draw a cross line about two inches wide bisecting the vertical line. Draw another one ten inches up, and a third another ten inches up.

Zero the rifle dead on at 100 yards. Shoot two shots at the bottom cross junction. Crank your elevation up the equivalent of ten MOA and shoot two more shots, and repeat at the third cross hair junction.

Go to your office, and measure the distance the bullets impact center is up or down from the cross hair junctions.

Ten MOA should be almost exactly ten inches at 100 yards. One MOA = 1.047" per hundred yards.

For example, if your groups are dead on (the ten MOA); divide the distance by the number of clicks. That is your click value. If it is off more than 2-3% longer ranges will multiply the error.

At 500yds, it will not be much, but if you shoot ELR it will make a significant different shooting targets or smaller game.

How many shots are you going to be taking? Enough to compete in a match, or just one or two?

If you can get them, bases that have some angle built into them might be useful. Once you get out a ways, many scopes will run out of adjustment.

If all you want is a rig to make precise kills @ 500 yds, starting with a 300 WM, then frankly you dont need an adjustable turret scope.

I like nightforce scopes for long range. Not the best glass but they track perfectly and you can drop them and they stay dialed in.
500 yds is fairly easy with practice. The wind is what is the hard part. Need a lot of practice on windy days!

quote:

Originally posted by Tim Herald:
So my definition of a good long range gun is one that I can shoot in the field to accurately kill something at 500 yards. I am not an experienced LR shooter, but recently have been shooting a Gunwerks for our TV show, and I see the difference in that and a normal rifle. I will eventually have to return the owner Gunwerks, and I can't afford to buy one for $9000.

I don't need 1000 yards, but again would like to have a solid 500 yard gun. My project begins with a Sako A7 in .300 Win. It has the Roughneck stock, is fluted, and I topped with a Nikon Monarch 5 Advanced BDC 4x20x50 scope. I will have a turret built. I adjusted the trigger down to 2 lbs.

I have taken the gun to the range and it shoots one hole at 100 yards, I touched 2 shots at 200 and a 3rd was about an inch. That is all I have shot it. This was factory Winchester ammo with a 180 gr accubond which I really like.

I am going to try some loads with H-1000 powder and CEB 180 gr Laser bullets as well.

SO out to 200, the gun shoots pretty darn well (especially with my limited shooting ability).

It has the Sako Roughtech stock with the aluminum skeleton and is 100% free floated.

Besides trying to develop another load and when I decide on the load, get a turret, what would you gurus suggest I do to the rifle?

Tim,
The advice to check your scope's adjustments for accuracy and repeatability is a solid starting point. If you aren't changing distance and therefore POI as long as it will hold zero, it will suffice. If you're going to be changing zeros as most of us do, (that's why we own expensive scopes) you may need to consider a change. My experience with Nikon scopes is limited so I can only advise a thorough evaluation for effectiveness.

Assuming a solid relationship between the barreled action and stock, that the trigger is adjusted to optimal settings, and solid scope mounting its then all about barrel, load quality, and shooter ability. Based on your comments it sounds like your rifle has good accuracy potential, but really that depends on your intended use. Is this rifle going to be a hunting rifle "out to" 500 yards? Or F-Class type paper at 500? Maybe steel? Your accuracy needs and bullet performance needs are dictated by use.
A couple of my shooting buddies use 300 Win Mags for shooting paper and steel out to 600. One of those rifles has an aftermarket barrel and shoots smaller groups (thus far) than the rifle with a factory barrel. That said, the factory barrel satisfies its owner's needs and that's all that matters.
You say you've shot this rifle to 200? Are you using the range at Bluegrass Sportsman's League? It seems like I remember a 300 yard range there from a couple of Bluegrass State Games matches there about a decade ago. If you don't have access to a private range to test loads and practice, I'd spend my time at the longest range that's available. I've never shot at Ft. Knox but I understand they have a 1000 yard range and there may be a similar range down at the Rockcastle Range near Mammoth Cave.

Good luck.

Thanks guys. This is to be a hunting rifle that I hope to be able to kill animals with to 500 yards. I plan to take to Asia next year for ibex.

On the scope, The guys at Gunwerks were very skeptical of the Nikon Monarch 5, but they put it through their paces, and it made the cut. They were not going to mount it and order a turret for me if it didn't pass their muster.

I have only had the chance the one day to shoot the rifle at 200. My home range has 300 yards, and that's max. I do know a guy within about 40 minutes that has a 900 year range.

I am going to have some hand loads made up and try out and compare to the factory load I have now, but it shoots sub MOA at 200 yards.

I guess my main thing here is this is not for competition, and not for 1000 yards.

I just don't know at what accuracy level I might need to think about muzzle break, doing something different to crown, if it needs different bedding, etc. I guess I need to shoot it more.

If I can shoot a MOA group at 300 yards with one of my loads, would you guys recommend me ordering a turret, and then going on out and seeing how it does at 400 and 500?

Obviously I want to do as little work to the rifle and spend as little as I can and be able to serve my purpose, but not sure at what point the equipment would need to be modified.

If I was shooting a .300WM at distances no more than 500 yards I would forget the turrent. Pick a scope with a rangefinder reticle, determine where it shoots with your loads and go hunting.

500 yards is not that far... and a sako 85 in either 7mm rem mag or 300 win or 300 wsm will get you thier.

i have a a sako 85 7mm rem mag i put a night force 5.5x22x50 g7 nxs on and with 162 grain hornady eld x bullets can consistently hit a 5" gong at 500 yards all day long with just the gun set up right from the factory custom tailored handload of course. i have them leaving my gun with a upper end charge of h-1000 moving along right at 3010 fps with a es of only 11 fps.

the glass you chose will make a huge difference iv shot this rifle out to 750 yards so far with excellent results im in the middle of making a 28 nosler to shoot the new 195 grain berger vlds atm. havnt desided on scope but will prolly be a night force 5.5x22x50 nxs or a night force atacar scope

Tim,
If you really want a reticle, I would look at Custom Turret Solitions. They build a turret tape instead if a turret for around $30. I've successfully used one the last couple of years and have taken a mule deer at 400 yards and a whitetail at 300 with this setup. I know those are not really long ranges but it's a proof of concept.

Another option on the scope would be to take and sight your gun in based on the 400 yard "hash mark" in the scope. By using the holdover point that you'd use at 400 yards to sight the gun in, you will always know that you are dead on at the 400 yard mark. You can then check to see where you're group is at a hundred yards but you'll always know that you are truly sighted in at the longer distance.

In all reality, you shouldn't need to dial for 500 yards shots but it's your gun and you can do whatever the hell you want.

Tyler

quote:

Originally posted by Nortman:
Firstly, $9000 for a LR rifle is ridiculous!!

[ . . . ]

The scope is very important! You need to know that the scope will repetadly "klick" for several thousands revolutions, and still be true.

I think that's a really important feature. Glass is important to me, but I want the internal mechanism to be true after thousands and thousands of clicks.

IMO, the importance of the mechanical guts of a scope cannot be overstated. I'd sacrifice some quality in glass to know that my scope is both durable and that it will track true every time. I don't want to worry about mechanical wear and tear.