I doubt that you would find a gunsmith that would do a conversion like that because it would be UNSAFE. The Puma in .454 has a lot more metal in the action to handle the pressures of the .454 cartridge. What you are describing would be akin to lengthening the chambers of a .44 Special revolver to take .44 Magnum cartridges. NOT a good idea. The .454 Casull operates at almost twice the pressure of the .45 Colt. Bill T.

Can a Winchester M-94 AE in 45 LC be converted to 454? If so would this be an easy conversion? I am looking for a 454 and I do not like the Puma and I understand the Marlin will not handle the pressure. Thanks for any input!

Having a 20" SS Puma 92' 454 Casull since July of 03' and shooting 250 + stout rounds through it, and sending back to M&M Gunsmithing for minor fixes, (Load gate popped out of receiver-slight split in the stock-And adding HiViz sights put on it) I'll tell you first hand, the 454 Casull does abuse hardware if is not on tight. It will brake it or bend it. So now everytime I come back from the range I do screw check. Bottom line on Winchester 94 conversion to 454 Casull, no thanks for me. Rifles built for the 454 Casull take abuse, and they're built for it. IMO.

Apparently someone has done it.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976434295.htm

This subject was discussed quite a bit when news of Rossi coming out with the 454 Casull. Here is a sample. But he was wrong about Rossi. No new rifle on the market in 454 Casull except for Rossi. Maybe the Winchester AE's can handle it? Maybe the Marlin can too? Many have been proven wrong before. Personally I think he is full of it.

Thanks, Ole Dan... Here's the main
Fri Apr 26 10:23:40 2002
216.187.146.90

part of what I said on the SASS-Wire...

Pards;
Don't rush to be the first kid on your block to have one...!!!

Having done EXTENSIVE scientific and empirical research on the .454 Casull in lever actions, beginning some 15+ years ago, I can tell you that a '92 Winchester/copy in that caliber is a bad idea. That Winchester itself gave up on the idea, in either the '92 or '94, should tell you something -- and that was AFTER our own experimenting. They just had to see for themselves... Winchester put together a few '94 Big Bores in collaboration with Freedom Arms, and after limited testing, The Big Red "W" backed out of the project in a hurry.

Our own tests showed that the .454 generates far too much pressure (62,000+ psi) and bolt thrust for the angled locking geometry in either action. We also proved, at least to our satisfaction, that the '92 is a FAR stronger action than the '94, partly due to length of receiver sidewalls, partly because there is so LITTLE material left in the right wall of the '94 -- and even LESS in the '94 Big Bore. The necessary cuts for the loading gate, &c., remove a LOT of metal, and the newer, 'angle-eject' nonsense carves a BIG hunk out of the only strong part of the wall that was left.

We had '94s stretch and peen themselves beyond safe limits in as little as 30 rounds of factory-equivalent .454 Casull loads. NONE of the SIX we wrecked (of six tested) lasted as many as 50 rounds before becoming unserviceable. The one that failed at 30 rounds was a 1985-made Big Bore. The Marlin 336 we tested became a rattling wreck that would no longer lock up, in 20 rounds.

Our answer - from the beginning - was to design and build a NEW rifle, from the ground up, around the requirements of the .454 Cartridge. The rifle looks much like an '86 Winchester, although somewhat smaller and shorter, with the same VERTICAL - as in SQUARE-TO-THE-BORE - lockup. It is made of 17-4Ph steel, same as used by Freedom Arms in their revolvers. So far, the rifle has digested everything we've tried in it, has been proof tested, and has shown no dimensional changes or other incipient problems. It has accounted for several deer and elk, numerous coyotes and a wagon load of snowshoe hare and jackrabbits. Hey! you have to shoot at SOMETHING...!

The new Pumas have NOT been beefed up in any way, other than to have the magazine tubes tack-welded to keep them from backing out.

Recoil? Yes. As has been noted, it is very much like a .45-70 - IN A 8 1/2 POUND RIFLE. 300-gr. cast bullet loads come out of a 24" barrel at an even 2100fps -- the same as the old .45-90-300 HV loads. The same loads run 1700 fps from a 7 1/2" FA Casull revolver.

If you've ever wondered WHY there are no .454 lever guns on the market, these are the reasons.

Hang on to your money, boys, and watch the show from the sidelines. This could get interesting.


ADDENDUM - Re: '92 Winchester...

For several years, I had a Browning '92, which wore the very barrel with which we conducted all our above-mentioned tests - now chambered for .45 Colt. It was cut to 24", and tapered to match '92 Winchester octagon rifle profile. The rifle also had a full-length magazine tube and was outfitted with new wood and a rifle fore-end cap, and a Niedner steel buttplate. I cut the carrier back enough to allow seating 300 gr. cast bullets in the .45 Colt cases, and it worked flawlessly with them and with the shorter 250-260 gr. cast 'cowboy' slugs. That was my CAS rifle for anumber of years, and I carried it when I packed one of my .45 Colt Vaqueros into the back country. It would easily digest loads in the 50,000 - 52,000 psi range, but would get sticky if you pushed it at all past that limit -- so I didn't. It fired hundreds of my heavy .45 Colt loads, which ran right at 1800 fps from the 24" barrel. making it about equal to the .454 revolver.

Regards,

Buck

Like I said, "No thanks for me". If a rifle wasn't built for high pressure rounds, why take a chance?

Is there really a good reason to push any gun past its limits if was not designed for it. The PUMA 92 in the 454 Casull was built for 454 Casull round, and I can tell everytime I pull the trigger.

Tim50,
The Winchester M/94 will not hold up under the 454 pressures. Even the 'Big Bore' system will not survive for long, the pressure creates too much bolt thrust in combination with the locking bolt angle.
Good shooting,
Headache

Yanqui

Yep someone did and you notice it's up for sale-doesn't say it was ever shot? Doesn't say who did the work!! So why don't you buy it a shoot it and let us know if you survive!!!



Obviously the writer of the article you posted doesn't have a clue! My Rossi M92 has been shot much from heavy to light loads and not a single problem with it! And for your info the M92 action is stronger then the M94!



P/S Have you or anyone else seen or heard of a Rossi coming apart/blowing up? I haven't, nor have I seen or heard of one either and there has been a bunch sold and shot for well over a year now!! Winchester and Marlin just driopped the ball and lost out!!

Firearms manufacturers have many more resources than most of us tinkerers and they sometimes surprise us with what they can do and what is safe. Here are 2 examples:

1 - 416 Rigby in No. 1. For years no gunsmith would do this conversion because the chamber walls would be very thin at the base. Then Ruger started making them and I've never heard of a problem.

2 - Marlin pressure limits. Time and time again I keep reading how the Marlin 1895 is limited to about 40-45,000 psi and that they cannot take 454 pressures. Now Marlin announces the 1895RL in 475 Linebaugh, which runs at 50K+ and has even a larger base than the 454! We'll know more when we see one.

A 454 Win 94? Never say never.