Which cartridge would you recommend for a Winchester Model 71, 1886, or Marlin 1895 big bore. Maybe I could use a modern 1895 Winchester action.

I am not looking for a 45 cal, nor a 50. I am looking for a 40 caliber (.411-.423) that will throw a 400 grain bullet at 2150 feet per second.

I have looked at the 416 Barnes. It looks pretty good. Maybe the 416 Alaskan?

The 411 Hawk in a Winchester 1895 would be about the best solution, but you will not get 2150 fps with a 400 grain bullet. You could create a monster 40 for the 1886 or 71 based on the 50-110 Winchester case. That might be the only way to 2150 fps with a 400 grain bullet. Any 40 caliber out of a Marlin 1895 will likely not push a 400 grain bullet 2150 fps.

http://www.z-hat.com/411%20Hawk.htm

Jackfish,

Just curious...Why can't you get 2150 with a 400 grain in 40 caliber, in a 71?

I was getting 2150, with a 400 grain, in the Browning 71. 450 Alaskan.

Roger QSL

It's a matter of the pressure required to push a bullet with the necissary sectional density.

The upper limit for the lever rifles is around 35,000CUP
and it takes all that pressure to get a 350gr bullet moving that fast down a .458dia bore.

Working against a smaller bore diameter the pressure would have to be even greater.

AllanD

AllanD,

Check out "Cartridges Of The World", 9th edition, page 196.
There is an article on the 416 Barnes.
The loading data shows a load that gets 2155 fps. Doesn't show any pressure numbers, but I suspect they may fine in the stronger lever actions.
Barnes used the 45/70 case for this wildcat by the way. Not a big as the 348 case, so the pressure should be a little less in the 416 Alaskan.

If a true 40 caliber is wanted, then possibly what your stating may be correct. Would have to see some numbers from one of the Load calc programs to clear this up.

Roger QSL

.400/.348 AI. Think Ackley has load data for it in his book. Perfect for a 71 or one of the new 86's.
As I recall 400 grs. at about 2100 fps.
Will try to remember to look it up tonight.
C.G.B.

Pressure level is not the only thing required to reach a given velocity....time (duration or "dwell-time") of pressure application is also important.

By using a large enough capacity case with more of a slow enough burning powder, one can reach velocity levels which cannot be reached with faster burning powder. Extended "dwell" of the pressure maintained by the slower burning powder does the trick. I suspect the 50-110 case (from which the .348
Winchester was developed?) might well give you what you want.

I'm not all that hot for 2,100 fps for any particular reason, but have considered making a "sorta" .40-70 Sharps Straight lever gun for myself, just for the "Hey" of it.... I have a particular fondness for .411 diameter barrels, Gawd only knows why.

quote:

Just curious...Why can't you get 2150 with a 400 grain in 40 caliber, in a 71?

I was getting 2150, with a 400 grain, in the Browning 71. 450 Alaskan.

You answered your own question. You got a 450 Alaskan to push a 400 grain bullet 2150 fps in a 71. A .411" based on a necked-down 450 Alaskan cannot equal the velocity of the 450 Alaskan with the same bullet weight.

quote:

Check out "Cartridges Of The World", 9th edition, page 196.
There is an article on the 416 Barnes.
The loading data shows a load that gets 2155 fps. Doesn't show any pressure numbers, but I suspect they may fine in the stronger lever actions.

All I can say is if a Marlin 1895 is the platform that is either way over pressure or it is with a cast bullet.

2000 fps with a 400 grain jacketed bullet is a 40,000 CUP load in the Marlin 1895 45-70. 50,000 CUP 400 grain 45-70 loads for the Ruger #1/3 achieve slightly over 2100 fps. A cartridge of smaller caliber based on the same case cannot equal the ballistics of the parent cartridge. Look at the difference between the 270 Win, 30-06 Sprg and 35 Whelen with 180 grain bullets. Internal ballistics dictates that cartridges based on the same case will drive equal weight bullets faster as bore diameter increases.

Even though the 450 Alaskan can drive a 400 grain bullet 2300 fps from a 26" barrelled 71 it is still a marginal proposition to get a "400 Alaskan" to push one 2150 fps. To achieve that level one could be assured to do so with a longer cartridge based on the 50-110 WCF and not be pushing the limits of the rifle.

I stand corrected. I didn't look the 411 Hawk page over well enough to find the following:

400 gr. Hawk Round Nose, Reloader 15

57 gr. 2159 fps, Model 43 psi 58,700

So, it looks like the 411 Hawk in the Winchester 1895 would do it.

411 Hawk