Gents how much of a problem do you think is powder position sensitivity in cartridges with very light subsonic loads? For example 3-4 grains in 38/357 and 4-7 grains in 44 rem/45 colt for example? Do you find your accuracy considerably effected?

Waiting to read the replies, Karl. I have never noticed anything when using the faster stuff such as Bullseye or Red Dot, but recently saw a comment over on castboolits.com to the effect that Universal is extremely position sensitive. Came as a big surprise to me -- if true.

Affected.
Depends on the powder; ask the maker. Basically, the slower it is, the closer it needs to be to the primer.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Waiting to read the replies, Karl. I have never noticed anything when using the faster stuff such as Bullseye or Red Dot, but recently saw a comment over on castboolits.com to the effect that Universal is extremely position sensitive. Came as a big surprise to me -- if true.

So far only your post Bill. Well except from the millenial quoting spelling.

In 357 going very light aka under 3 grains of clays or AS-30N as its manufactured here, I found accuracy was poorer however I was not sure whether it was the powder position.

I have seen a few threads where fellas raise the firearm muzzle to a vertical position versus lowering it to the ground before firing, presumably getting the powder further or closer to the primer and resulting in a fairly marked change in velocity. Which is probably not unexpected and not something you would normally do, but interesting nevertheless. I might do some experimenting this weekend.

No replies because its not a problem with most pistol powders although I don't see much point in it...A starting load in a reloading book should be a better option IMO..

Do not ask me to explain why (that should be evident) but 45-90 factory 300 grain cowboy action ammo accuracy was always best when elevating the rifle barrel to vertical just before firing. The powder in these loads was quite loose and made the shot to shot accuracy poor if not settled and fired the same way before each shot.

Shortly after the PPC type shooting became the rage in the late 1980's. As a Smith service center we started seeing a LOT of three shot Smith K frames.

We sent a number of them back to Smith and the factory would send a replacement handgun for their cost.

But once when my Father had called the factory up during the conversation this came up.
Smith was seeing a LOT of them, and could not figure out why.

Old school shooting was at the line with the gun pointed upwards, you then lowered it and fired. One of the old reasons that had been forgotten was to seat the powder charge the same each time on top of the primer flash hole

The new style PPC shooting started at the down position in a holster and then up and fired.

Using a light charge of Bullseye would then place the powder under the buller in which then the primer flash would set it all of at once, spiking the pressure curve.

Smith went WOW we had not thought of that, shortly afterwards Smith issued the no reloaded ammo policy.

Just my 2 cents, I always use a bulky powder like Unique.

J Wisner

Slow speed + bulky powder = TrailBoss !

for about 9 years in the El Paso police dept, we qualified with 38 M&P Smith and Wesson on targets and on the PPC course with the old target load of 3 grs of Bullseye out of a loading machine run by trustees...Only problem we ever had was miss fire now and then..Thats not what Im hearing here??? why is that? I can however see in some cases. particularly in rifles. the need for a filler..I might add that on the PPC course the powder would be sitting on the powder charge in a holster?? Interresting thread that raises more questions than answers it seems..

Some fast burning powders are not that position sensitive and others are. The other frustrating thing is accuracy can be quite variable when using low charges to produce velocities around 800fps. In the bigger cases i find it's more difficult to achieve accurate low velocity loads. In my 44 I settled 4.5gr of AS-30 (Clays) behind a 210 gr pill for good accuracy, low recoil and noise.

I tried Trailboss a few times and could not develop any decent accuracy loads with it. I recently came across a WA1500 shooter who uses Trailboss to good effect. I tried some of his loads and they were really light and very accurate. IIRC he was using about 2 gr of TB in a 38 case (for use in a 357), however he used quite a light bullet seated well below the case mouth to reduce the capacity even further. These were tricks I had never looked into. He then admitted that it took him some 300 load combinations before he found this formula.

I guess you could also consider case fillers but I'm loathe to do that when loading high volume rounds.

At some ranges pointing the muzzle up would be a no-no. An accidental discharge would send the bullet who knows where.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
for about 9 years in the El Paso police dept, we qualified with 38 M&P Smith and Wesson on targets and on the PPC course with the old target load of 3 grs of Bullseye out of a loading machine run by trustees...Only problem we ever had was miss fire now and then..Thats not what Im hearing here??? why is that? I can however see in some cases. particularly in rifles. the need for a filler..I might add that on the PPC course the powder would be sitting on the powder charge in a holster?? Interresting thread that raises more questions than answers it seems..

that was at the range off scenic drive. i was offered that machine (a camdex) for $9000 when they decided to upgrade but a leo friend with eppd told me that if u stared at the machine it worked fine but go take a leak or get a cup a coffee and when u came back it was jammed. i passed. also didn't have $9000!