Any sign of these in the USA yet?

I saw them at the NRA Annual Meetings in Charlotte back in May. Legacy Sports Intl. has them in there catalog. You might give them a call to see if they have received any. Hope this helps.

I wouldn't bother with them, personally. I could be wrong, but they look like they have a short receiver, and can only handle 45-70 length cartridges. The Japanese made winchesters can handle 45-90 and 50-110 lengths (2.4" cases) just like the originals. Of course, some folks might like the short receiver. To each his own.

they are the same as the original and all of the parts will be interchangable with the originals also. They are NOT SHORT!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Doug Turnbull:
they are the same as the original and all of the parts will be interchangable with the originals also. They are NOT SHORT!!!

Very interesting. Doug: Do you know, yet, if these 1886 actions are as strong as the original winchester's made with nickel steel barrels (i.e. capable of handling 33 WCF, 348 WCF, 475 Turnbull etc.?

Doug, Have you seen any of these? Do you think you might use them as a platform for some of your stuff?

I guess so; they have special Doug Turnbull editions listed on their web page....

quote:

Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
if these 1886 actions are as strong as the original winchester's made with nickel steel barrels

Their site lists the .444 Marlin as available. In Europe, where these are made, that cartridge is rated at 51,000 psi. The SAAMI rating is 42,000 psi. I don't know where they are being proofed, Italy or the U.S.

Regardless, I wouldn't hesitate to do a .33 WCF. If it's proofed in Italy, the .257 Roberts with RN bullets becomes an interesting possibility.

quote:

Originally posted by asdf:

quote:

Originally posted by ColoradoMatt:
if these 1886 actions are as strong as the original winchester's made with nickel steel barrels

Their site lists the .444 Marlin as available. In Europe, where these are made, that cartridge is rated at 51,000 psi. The SAAMI rating is 42,000 psi. I don't know where they are being proofed, Italy or the U.S.

Regardless, I wouldn't hesitate to do a .33 WCF. If it's proofed in Italy, the .257 Roberts with RN bullets becomes an interesting possibility.

The US doesn't have any proof facilities - and couldn't give a damn about proof anyway.

They are proofed in Europe.

This is a guess, but they should be made with 41XX chrome moly steel barrels, which is way stronger than Winchester nickel steel of back then.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
This is a guess, but they should be made with 41XX chrome moly steel barrels, which is way stronger than Winchester nickel steel of back then.

It really isn't the barrel steal, but the receiver steel that I would be concerned about. I believe the Jap 86's use 4135 for their receivers. Plenty strong.

quote:

Originally posted by 500N:
The US doesn't have any proof facilities - and couldn't give a damn about proof anyway.

Strange: I recently bought a U.S. made revolver that came complete with the case of its proof cartridge.

I remember talking with the technical coordinator at SAAMI once, about getting a .30-40 proof cartridge. He told me proof cartridges are generally available only for cartridges chambered in guns currently in production. Surely somebody here is using them.

Perhaps you simply meant to imply there is no government sanctioned proofing body here, which is true. That does not, though, imply guns here are not proofed. If I recall, the US proof pressures are generally higher than CIP's.

If the gun is made in Italy, it may be proofed there, but I see no reason it couldn't instead be shipped to the US to be proofed under the guidelines of this market. Where do the Italians place their proof marks? On no Uberti I've handled here have I seen a proof mark, but I wasn't looking for such, either.

I think what you have with the fired case included with your new handgun is done to satisfy some States regs that the pistol be fired by the factory and therefore a "fingerprint" of the bore is recorded for possible criminal investigation in the future. Don't remember just which States require that, but believe MD is one of them and perhaps Mass.?? There is no gov't proof system involved as far as I know in the U.S.

You probably mean fingerprint of the primer strike, eh? That case goes to the state registry where required.

If the rifle is assembled in Italy, it has to be proofed, and marked there. If it is shipped to the US as parts, it is not fired in Italy. Case in point; the Chaparral rifles imported by Charter Arms; they were sent here as parts and assembled in the USA; hence, no Italian proofs. Ubertis, OTOH, are assembled in Italy and are proofed and marked as such there. Also, in the matter of barrel vs receiver steel; Hoop strength of the barrel is more important than the receiver. Back thrust on bolts is relatively low, but the barrel has to deal with different and more, stress. That is why it is usually the barrel that "blows" on old guns when they are over loaded, and not the receiver, which probably was made from either wrought iron, or mild steel at best. For the record, having both made from modern chrome moly steel is best. And 8620, which is chrome moly nickel, low carbon, is best of all. A lot of generalizations here, but you get the point (s).

Tiggertate,
OK, never thought about the primer strike. I thought they were wanting to get a sample bullet for ballistic comparison if ever needed and retained the bullet?? You are most likely correct though.

quote:

Originally posted by MFD:
I think what you have with the fired case... a "fingerprint" of the bore is recorded

No, the base of the case is colored red, per SAAMI specs for a proof cartridge.

As far as I know, every SAAMI member proofs their firearms to SAAMI specs. Given the reliability of modern engineering, metallurgy, and machining, I doubt any gun fails proof these days.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
If the rifle is assembled in Italy, it has to be proofed, and marked there.

Perhaps, but I'm not familiar with Italian laws. I imagine any firearm sold there will be required to be proofed to local standards. I'll guess a Remington shipped there is proofed in Italy (or elsewhere in the EU) because the U.S. is not a CIP member.

Regardless, if you find Italian proof marks on a .444 Marlin model, it will have been proofed for 51,000 psi with a case head of roughly .47 inch diameter. If you rechamber to a bigger case diameter, you'll want to lower the pressure. CIP specs for the .348 are 46,000, and the new .475 Turnbull is rated at 42,000 by SAAMI.

edit: Thinking about it a bit more, the guns would most likely be proofed in Italy. SAAMI guidelines are voluntary, and proofing to CIP specs would cover their legal backsides here. Done there, they wouldn't have to segregate finished rifles by market.