I had several 30-30s in Model 94. 3 or 4 were various pre-64 lever action rifles and a couple of the later ones. While I enjoyed the mechanical clack sounds of the pre-64s, and their function was excellent, the ones I had just were not all that accurate. One of them was with the 170 grain SilverTips that are of course no longer made.

When I sold off the commerative 30-30s I just said I am going to start again in 30-30 and sold the others too.

So this time I started thinking about the 64s. Maybe the longer barrels would improve their accuracy versus the 94s. Or maybe that is just a wish.

The better quality 64s are about twice the cost of the 94s but if they shoot better at up to 100 yards with open sight then I am fine with that.

I know my eyes arent what they used to be but I could and generally still do shoot the open sighted guns well. Like many of you that is what I grew up shooting.

What is you guys experience and takes on it?

Thanks.

I have had both in 30-30 and do like the 94 for it's handiness so to speak, but the 64 seemed to be easier to line up sights and did give better accuracy, but probably due to the longer sight radius and irons?? A minty early 64 is up there in price these days, but don't think there is any other rifle that harkens back to the old days in an Eastern deer camp around the camp fire with buck hanging up. Just my opinion.

Yes that is true. And I tend to like the long barrels anyway in most applications. I have longer barrel shotguns, longer barrel rifles and longer barrel ARs.

I was always under the idea that the actions are the same just with the 64 stock and barrel being different. But they feel better and more quality to me some.
'
Yes they certainly do cost more with the DeLuxes at or near $2000. And more.

Thank you for the feedback Instructor.

Just the longer sight radius makes a difference; nothing inherent in the rifles does because they are the same. I can tell you from personal experience from 1966 (to date) that putting a peep sight on them will do more than anything else to make them shoot better.
Don't even mention a scope on a 94 or I will absolutely cringe.

^^^^

No I don't want to scope it. As a matter of fact that is why I want another 30-30. I never scoped any of them previously. Or any lever action including my 45-70 Cowboy with the 26 inch barrel.

But I did see a great 7-30 Waters that was a factory Winchester 94 with a scope on it that was an excellent shooter. But i didn't get it and then it got away which was fine.

I think I must be one of the few who prefer the barrel sights to peeps. Heck it always looking like I am aiming the same with the peeps. Lol. But I will sure think about that too. It is a well proven solution for many though.

Thank you for the input and ideas too.

The 1894 was made in rifle form too !
There are lots of them out there at decent prices still...tj3006

quote:

I know my eyes arent what they used to be but I could and generally still do shoot the open sighted guns well

There is a reason all my serious hunting rifles have optics on them.

I see no reason to handy cap my self with open sights.

But each to their own

I think the true pistol grip stock of the 64 is better for rifle shooting than the straight grip or semi-pistol grip of the 94. The straight stocked carbine is great for getting off a quick, aimed shot but the pistol gripped 64 is better for a deliberate, precisely aimed shot.

1936 carbine shoots well as does my two model 64s. Aperture sights on all.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

I know my eyes arent what they used to be but I could and generally still do shoot the open sighted guns well

There is a reason all my serious hunting rifles have optics on them.

I see no reason to handy cap my self with open sights.

But each to their own

True. Mine too.

But this isn't a really serious hunting rifle. It is a take along like if I have a younger shooter with the scoped rifle. Maybe my daughter.

Plus this will be closer range rifle for sure. 100 yards probably at the most.

If it going to get serious I guess I will break out that new Arroyo that I am looking at.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
I think the true pistol grip stock of the 64 is better for rifle shooting than the straight grip or semi-pistol grip of the 94. The straight stocked carbine is great for getting off a quick, aimed shot but the pistol gripped 64 is better for a deliberate, precisely aimed shot.

That is a good point too. Thanks. I like the pistol grip style too.

I wil look at the aperture 450, but there are some guys that just shoot those better than others. I had the best Redfields on my Win 75 and had all kinds of apertures made. I could hit Xs with it - but I needed to know where the first shot was. I finally gave up and put one of those long Redfield 12X scopes on it.

Thanks.

There is a reason that most modern military rifles use peep sights, and all target shooters do. They are simply more accurate to use. I agree on the pistol grip thing.

quote:

Originally posted by dpcd:
There is a reason that most modern military rifles use peep sights, and all target shooters do. They are simply more accurate to use. I agree on the pistol grip thing.

There is a reason the military is going to optics.

The reason target shooter use peeps instead of optics is rules against there use.

Ok, I am comparing open barrel sights (which is what the OP mentioned) to peep sights, not comparing optics to peep sights. If you had read my posts, you will understand that I see no reason to mount a scope on a 94 at all. Read and understand the thread.

I have generally had very good luck with the 94 SRCs. I have one that shoots 1.5 and another that shoots such little 3 shot groups that I won't bother to tell..Won a lot of turkeys, hams, and cash with it and the barrel looks like the inside of a tramp steamers smoke stack!!

94 or 64, I have never seen any difference that wasn't the fault of the gun, good and bad in both..With either you just have to keep looking and hope to get lucky, when you find a good one, hang on to it..

I love to hunt with my 25-35 and 30-30 and try to get out after a deer or elk every year with one or the other for a day or two anyway depending on where I'm hunting and the number of animals I'm seeing, but if pickens get hard and the game is wild and hard to find, then I drag out the scope sighted bigger gun.

A 30-30 is death and distruction on an elk up to about 200 yards on a broadside shot. Some folks that have not used it disagree, but there 30-06 and 300 Wby is a 30-30 at those distant ranges they shoot at..

"Just the longer sight radius makes a difference; nothing inherent in the rifles does because they are the same."

That's true as far as it goes, but the 64 does have one design advantage. It doesn't have a full-length magazine with front magazine band at the muzzle to cause troubles. Often, I have improved the accuracy of various 94 carbines by loosening up the screw holding the magazine plug so that it doesn't bear on the bottom of the barrel, which then expands as it heats from firing.

I also loosen the front band a bit so it doesn't have a death-grip on the barrel. The 64 kind of takes care of these issues. The pistol grip stock is a definite winner for me, and the balance + long sight radius make them easier to shoot well for me, particularly in standing offhand. Like others, I use a peep, but in my case, an original Lyman tang sight.

John

You can (maybe) find a 64 in either 20 inch or 26 inch barrel length. Also, there are 94's in both 20 and 26 inch length. Accuracy difference could be from which stock fits you better, the quality of the ammo or the accuracy of the gun its self. Just find one you like and make some good ammo for it.

Additionally a short stubby 20 inch barrel should shoot better than a longer barrel, and that is considered to be common knowledge although I have not found it to be true in every case for what that's worth..I think barrel harmonics is the catch...

I do know that glass bedding the barrel channel and the butt stock mortise to the metal will make most model 94 shoot pretty darn good, much the same as that method works on bolt action rifles.

Glass bedding a 94 is a bit complicated and tricky, and not for the light of heart or the inexperienced, most would be well advised to contact an experienced stocker, glass bedder who has done this before..