Mic Mc phearson builds a converted Marlin lever action into a 510 kodiak express stomper. A very nice article with plenty of pictures in this months GUNS magazine. He gets a little over 5000 ft.lbs of energy out of the 23" barreled model. I have loaded it to 5right at 5700 ft.lbs and had no problems with it. Mine is the 23" one in the article.If you get a chance you should read the article, its pretty good.

I like his work and would like to get a 475L built but his prices seam to match Holland and Holland.

His prices may seem high, but there is a massive amount of work, lots of man hours that goes into making one of these work right.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdoggy700:
His prices may seem high, but there is a massive amount of work, lots of man hours that goes into making one of these work right.

Are you aware of another Marlin-smith offering longer-than-50 Alaskan .50-caliber conversions? I ask for two reasons: Mr. McPherson will not make a 510 Kodiak Express barrel from a stainless steel barrel blank; how much more work goes into a 510 Kodiak versus 50 Alaskan? Mr. McPherson will alter a Marlin M1895 to accept 2.73-inch cartridge overall length for less than $300.00. 50 Alaskan conversions using new barrels run about $1300.00 from most converters.

The smiths who leap to mind as "possibles" are David Clay and Ben Forkin. Anyone have knowledge of their price structure for -- more or less -- 50-110 trimmed to 2.3 inches with OAL 2.73 inches? The difference between this and 510 Kodiak Express physically is that 510 KE is slightly blown out to preclude inadvertent chambering in older 50-110 rifles.

Why do you need a lever action to hunt with I made a 50-110 using a Remington rolling block and a Green mountain barrel . shoot straight and kill your game you only need 1 shot !

quote:

Originally posted by Concho42:
Why do you need a lever action to hunt with I made a 50-110 using a Remington rolling block and a Green mountain barrel . shoot straight and kill your game you only need 1 shot !

Why is the sky blue?

If you load the 510 K.EX. to its full potential, you can get 5600-5700 ft.lbs. Unless a special bolt through the stock is used, it is very likely that the stock will crack with in a few shots. I know Mic uses a couple of mercury tubes also, and highly recommends getting all the interior and exterior parts coated with the robar finish. It is the slickest finish I have ever seen on a gun. Robar is charging between 800 and 900 dollars just to coat the metal inside and out. He also gets his barrels specially threaded and has had almost a year wait on the 3 he is building right now. These are just a few of the many details that can drive up the cost. By the way, I think the robar NP3 finish is worth the cost. You have to actually cock a lever action with NP3 finish to really appreciate how slick it is. I also have several David Clay guns, and he does nice work too. I am not trying to say that Mic is the only one that can build you a 510 K.Ex., I just know that he dos very good work.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdoggy700:
If you load the 510 K.EX. to its full potential, you can get 5600-5700 ft.lbs. Unless a special bolt through the stock is used, it is very likely that the stock will crack with in a few shots. I know Mic uses a couple of mercury tubes also, and highly recommends getting all the interior and exterior parts coated with the robar finish. It is the slickest finish I have ever seen on a gun. Robar is charging between 800 and 900 dollars just to coat the metal inside and out. He also gets his barrels specially threaded and has had almost a year wait on the 3 he is building right now. These are just a few of the many details that can drive up the cost. By the way, I think the robar NP3 finish is worth the cost. You have to actually cock a lever action with NP3 finish to really appreciate how slick it is. I also have several David Clay guns, and he does nice work too. I am not trying to say that Mic is the only one that can build you a 510 K.Ex., I just know that he dos very good work.

I've been giving such a project much thought.

1. Columbia Gun Coatings (Columbia Falls, MT) has a flat black internal-external finish that achieves similar result to Robar's while being exceptionally attractive at less than $300.00.

2. Would not a hand-laid fiberglass or Kevlar® stock achieve necessary impact resistance? Or, perhaps laminated birch? Regardless, the less-than-$300.00 for Mr. McPherson's through bolt would be an acceptable expense.

3. Mercury tubes are an option so far as I would be concerned for a hunting rifle. That a cartridge-rifle combination is capable of 5600 ft/lbs of energy does not imply you load to that. I have parameters in being. Unfortunately 50 Alaskan doesn't make the numbers. And I am not in favor of handloading until everything squeaks. I prefer to have the load comfortable for the cartridge. This implies the cartridge has more potential than I use. This is much easier on firearm, brass, and shooter.

4. When I corresponded with Mr. McPherson recently, we would have agreed upon a Krieger cut-rifled stainless steel barrel. The sticking point was stainless steel. He believes pre-hardened 416BQ has insufficient yield strength for the purpose when compared with pre-hardened 4140. He offers no wiggle room here -- despite my confirming he would create the loading data at 37K CUP maximum, and I would abide by it.
***
Which brings me back to: Who else offers comparable conversions of comparable quality for stainless steel Marlin M1895s, using stainless steel barrel?

If you want a stainless steel barrel stick to the 50 Alaskan. Mic uses a barrel that has been heat treated to his specifications and he uses only this barrel for the 510 KE. It is like the speed ratings on tires, you can do 120 in any tire but if you are going to go 120 for hours at a time you better use the properly rated tire. Mic builds rifles to shoot and he can not control what you do with a rifle after he sends it home to you. You may sell it to Bigdoggy and he will push it to the limit, Mic will not build something he is not sure of. The short and long of it is no one else can or to my knowledge build a 510 KE other than Mic. By the way I speak of this first hand, I own and shoot the hell out of the other 510 KE referenced in the recent article in Guns Magazine.

quote:

Originally posted by TWC:. . . The short and long of it is no one else can or to my knowledge build a 510 KE other than Mic. . . .

The potential of the 510 Kodiak Express is not necessary to meet my parameters. An elongated 50 Alaskan -- that is, a shortened 50-110 -- will do nicely. Operating pressure would necessarily be lower than 50 Alaskan, being more than offset by increased cartridge [case] capacity. Who can/will do the work? One would think several of those who routinely convert to 50 Alaskan would be capable of the job. Apparently, altering M1895 actions to accept longer cartridge overall length is less routine. Still, someone trustworthy must be out there?

Hi, Tommy, nice to hear from you again. Have you been out shooting much lately? To Naphtali I would think that if other gunsmiths were building the 510 on the marlin frame, we would have heard about them by now. The 510 K.E. is a shortened 50-110 and an elongated 50 alaskan. Obviously you are right, the 510 K.E. in a Marlin 1895 is way less "routine".

Hi Bigdoggy,

Been working way too much and shooting too little. To help Naphtali out a little here. The working pressure of the 510 Kodiak Express is the issue with stainless steel barrels. The base difference between the 50 Alaskan and the 510 KE is .225' of case length. To get the Marlin action to function with this extra length plus the diameter difference from the 45/70 requires the modification of each and every internal action part as well as the receiver. Wild West Guns offers a modification on the 45/70 to the longer 475 Wild West but will not attempt it with the 50 caliber cartridges to my knowledge. The trial and error of fitting the parts in the 510 KE is very time consuming and if I were to guess I would wager good money that Mic did not make $5.00 an hour building mine and Bigdoggy's rifles. It is a labor of love and an iffy business practice to build a 510 KE for the gunsmith. Most custom rifle builders will only build something that is profitable each and every time. Bottom line is be happy with the 50 Alaskan of pay Mic's price and be prepared to wait over a year to see you rifle. I will assure you that the price and wait are well worth the rifle you will receive in the end.

hi,

I was the second person to get a 50-110 from Dave Clay many years ago.I had mine made on a win 1886.It had problems with OAL of round,carrier would break. Anyway Dave has been working on a new 50-110 for me it will be on a browning LA,it can handle the OAL and pressure.I loaded a 525 WFN hard cast on my 1886 to 2,250 fps,anyway I have been into 50-110 for a long time.

Kev

Kev5000 I sure would like your loading info for your 50-110 I have a single shot Rem/roll/blk Thanks Concho

HI,

Off the top of my head I was using 72 grains H-4895,it was a hot load and I was using starline brass,which is very strong. I would strongly suggest starting off lighter and working your way up watching for any pressure signs.
Kev

HI,

Off the top of my head I was using 72 grains H-4895,it was a hot load and I was using starline brass,which is very strong. I would strongly suggest starting off lighter and working your way up watching for any pressure signs.
Kev

Kev or/and any of the others that are shooting these guns in the 5000 ft /lb range.
What sort of case head expansion are you getting on these loads? This would be done on new unfired brass ahead of the extractor cut.

The industry standard tends to be .0005 equals about 45,000 PSI so this is a good way to try and see with out big costs the pressures of your cartridge.

So what are you getting on loads?

Doug

HI,


as far as headspace no problems. the other stuff you will have to talk to my smith. One other thing pressure was never a problem. I used starline brass and the 1886 can handle up to 55,000 PSI,I had problems with cartride carry from tube to chamber. This is why I am getting a 50-110in a BLR.Kev

Kev,
I had the same problems with my 450/110. Dave was having problems solving it. First he cut back the lifter and that didn't work. He replaced the lifter but the cases kept getting stuck and jumping the little finger that guides the cartidge into the carrier ears. I noticed that the new carrier was scratching the brass and that might be the problem. I took the rifle apart and experimented on the new carrier with 45/70 cases. I noticed that they would slide into the carrier without resistance but the 50/110 cases caught on the ears of the carrier and had to be forced into the carrier ears resulting in deep scratches on the cartrige case where the ears contacted the sides of the case. There was enough resistance to cause the rim of the cartirdge to jump over the guide finger and fail to enter the ears of the carrier. I polished the ears with a ceramic knife hone until the 50/110 case would drop into the the carrier without resistance and re-assembled the gun. It now functions perfectly. The problem with 50/110 based cartridges in the 86 Win is the the ears of the carrier are designed for the smaller diameter 45/70 case and must be relieved slighty for the fatter 50/110 based cartridges.

Kev5000

When you say you getting a 50/110 in a blr do you mean one is being converted for you now? I am very interested to know the particulars about this project!

Thanks!
Mark

HI,

It has been 3 years now ,or more , for the BLR and I am still waiting. It has turned out to be more complicated than Dave Clay or I thought.And there is still a promblem with the magazine,he will have to make them himself,Kev

Hey Kev,good to see you back.Ill be in touch.

Triple H / MYI

I bought this rat M71, and had my gunsmith convert it to 50-110. It took him about six weeks of spare time tinkering to finish it, and he made the stocks from a blank I took him. 30" barrel, full magazine. BTW, the magazine tube is .970" thinwall tubing, about $2 a foot at Metal Supermarket in Boise.

You guys need to work with gunsmiths who work for a living, instead of these Michaelangelo's. Pay when the work is completed, and ask for a bill.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

HI,


Triple H,nice to hear from you,when the sh-t hits the fan down there you know where to go,Kev

You got it,I see the clouds forming.

Hmmm.....
Marlin - nice gun, but....step up to it, get an 1886 or a Mod. 71.
Chamber it in the 50-110 and you have got something.
Shoot a heavy bullet and forget about the rest.

Regards,

Vasa

pretty much what Vasa said! I had a local guy do a totally rat M71 into a 30" octagon barrel, full magazine 50-110 last year. Turnbull usually has one or two in stock.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...
13 days to Makuti