I've been lurking for a while now and this is my first post. Last year they changed the deer hunting where I live from shotgun only to any center fire rifle. I'm interested in getting a 44 mag rifle that would double as a squirrel/rabbit gun. Everything I shoot will be my own reloads. I live in central NY. Shots over 75 yards are rare.

This is just one of my thoughts for my future deer gun. I have other, equally wacky ideas. What I don't have is a lot of money. I can afford the $400 for the Marlin plus scope, dies, etc.

The plan would be to find a load for the 240 gr. bullet around 1050 fps, which I believe is just under the speed of sound. Is that right? This would have to be as accurate as a decent .22 rimfire, obviously. That would be the small game load for head shots and the deer load would probably be some 260 gr. Keith type of thing going around 1600 fps. Sound right?

So the question is: Is the Marlin 1894 up to this task?

I can't think of any other production cartridges that could actually be practical for this double duty, given handloading. The level of accuracy needed might be too much to ask of a production lever gun.

So anyone know how these bores and chambers are in these guns regarding chamber being concentric with bore, tolerances, etc.?

Thanks in advance for any info.

My marlin 1894 44mag is a great shooter and one of my favorite deer guns.I shot a doe last year at 10yds with a hornady 300gr XTP bullet.It did its job! You'll love this gun.I also shoot speer 270gr gold dot bullets very accurately with w296..Buy this gun!

A 44 magnum levergun should be a fine solution. I'd zero it with hunting ammo at 100 yards then work up a small game load that shoots to the sights at closer distances. You might even find a slower lighter bullet will work for small game; a 240 @ 1050 is close range deer medicine. But putting this setup together may strain your $400 budget.

Since you're planning to handload in any case another less expensive option could be a used Model 336 in 30/30 (~$200). Its rep as a deer killer is well earned and you can still handload light lead bullets at air gun velocities for small game. The savings on the used rifle will allow you to buy dies and an inexpensive scope or a nice receiver sight.

I have a Marlin 1894 in 44 mag. that places 10 rounds in a ragged hole (7/8 inch) at 100 yards. The gun shoots better than I can hold.

Well, the only time I shot a rabbit w. a 44 mag, it blew it all to hell -- really, it's hard to beat a 22 LR, maybe 22 mag for squirrel and rabbit. However, I never tried handloads, but I imagine by the time you downloaded a 44 mag slow enough to not destroy a rabbit, you'll be shooting a pretty big arc.

1894 in 44 mag will do anthing in the first 48 under 100 yds with the right load and shot. Part of the fun is playing with different loads to make the gun as effective as possible from 320 gr down to .430 round balls over 2.5 gr bullseye....the gun will do it, ya just gotta put em together the right way then shoot em right too!!!!

Consider the 1894 in 357 mag too for deer and smaller...out to 100 yds.

Can I play devils advocate and suggest a Marlin 45/70 lever gun and down load it to the 300 gr bullet to 1700 fps, recoil won't be to bad and you will have a far more versatile gun. You can then stoke up the 400 gr bullets to 1850 fps or the 300 to 2150 down the track. I own both a 45/70 and the .44 rem mag but I f I could only have one it would be the 45/70.

My other two suggestions wouldbe a marlin 30/30 lever gun or a Ruger MK11 blued/walnut 30/06 and leupold 3-9 scope...................one hell of a versatile gun thats for sure !!

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
Well, the only time I shot a rabbit w. a 44 mag, it blew it all to hell -- really, it's hard to beat a 22 LR, maybe 22 mag for squirrel and rabbit. However, I never tried handloads, but I imagine by the time you downloaded a 44 mag slow enough to not destroy a rabbit, you'll be shooting a pretty big arc.

Yes, a "normal" 44 mag load will do that to a rabbit, no question. However, even with a .22 rimfire I have taken to jusrt head shots on both squirrel and rabbits. It staryed with squirrels, actually. My brothers and I were using standard hollow points. Too much meat destroyed. We went to solids. That was better but at the same time we were not happy with our accuracy. Our uncle suggested CCI target ammo. Our guns became more accurate and we found less meat damage still. I got pretty good at just making lung/heart shots without hitting a leg. Then I just went to head shots. Less squirrels (but not that much less - it's surprising what you can do when you up your own standards) but much better cleaning/eating. So I'm not disagreeing, just saying where I'm coming from.

As far as arc of the slow load, it will be exactly the same as a .22 target load.

quote:

Originally posted by Lowrider 49:
1894 in 44 mag will do anthing in the first 48 under 100 yds with the right load and shot. Part of the fun is playing with different loads to make the gun as effective as possible from 320 gr down to .430 round balls over 2.5 gr bullseye....the gun will do it, ya just gotta put em together the right way then shoot em right too!!!!

Consider the 1894 in 357 mag too for deer and smaller...out to 100 yds.

Where do you get the round balls? Probably have to cast them yourself?

.357 mag - I have thought of this. I'm afraid of it not being "enough gun". I also don't like that the gun is lighter. Why is that? Why do they state the 1894 in .357 to be half a pound lighter than the same in .44 mag?

quote:

Originally posted by PC:
Can I play devils advocate and suggest a Marlin 45/70 lever gun and down load it to the 300 gr bullet to 1700 fps, recoil won't be to bad and you will have a far more versatile gun. You can then stoke up the 400 gr bullets to 1850 fps or the 300 to 2150 down the track. I own both a 45/70 and the .44 rem mag but I f I could only have one it would be the 45/70.

I have considered the 45/70. I like the heft and balance of the gun itself (picked one up at the local store), but it takes small game out of the equation. Much more importantly (for me) is that:

1. Too expensive to shoot on a regular basis. Between the cost of those huge chunks of lead and the amount of powder they take, I just wouldn't be able to go to the range every week and practice with 100 rounds. If money was not an issue, it might be a different story, but then there's...

2. The recoil. When I lived out west my 270 got to me, and that's supposed to be *mild*. Oh well, I'm a recoil wimp. I admit it. A moderate load in a 7mm'08 is comfortable for me. I had a BLR in that cartridge and I could shoot it all day. Five shots out of my Rem 700 in 270 and I was flinching with a sore shoulder to boot. So it goes.

So I think it would be a great deer gun with my own handloads, but that's all it would be for me. Too much recoil for bigger loads (we have some pretty decent black bear hunting close to me) and too much lead and powder for a lot of practice shooting.

quote:

Originally posted by PC:
My other two suggestions wouldbe a marlin 30/30 lever gun or a Ruger MK11 blued/walnut 30/06 and leupold 3-9 scope...................one hell of a versatile gun thats for sure !!

I'm still considering the 30/30. If Marlin made one with ballard rifling, I'd be all over it. There are two Winchester Rangers at my local store. I don't know too much about them. Wasn't crazy about how they felt. If I go 30/30 I want to go cast bullet all the way. With the microgroove, I'll probably have to get into casting my self to get the slightly oversize bullets I'll need. It seems the .44 is a lot more simple in that way. I could be wrong.

Hornady makes a round ball at .433 (I was wrong) that will work great in a .44 mag. with just a pinch of a fast powder. Under 25 yds, they will kill just fine and shoot a squirell head size group most of the time.

.357 mag with hot loads in a rifle is just a little under .30-30 power. I get about 1980 fps with 17 gr of LilGun and a 158 gr Rem SP in my 1894 and they knock the snot right out of deer and shoot 2" groups at 75 yds with a Williams 5D and old eyes. Do some research on the .357 mag rifle...for 300 lb and under critters it works just fine with a round thru the ribs. Hard cast bullets (358429 165 +/- gr) will give better penetration if needed, but Rem 158 SP are cheap and work great. I've never shot a black bear with one, but lot's of others have.

I have 1894s with ballard, but the Micro groove work just as good in the .33-30 and 35 Rem and probably will with the .357 and .44 too.

The .45-70 is a fine gun. I have a 450 Marlin and #1 son has killed 2 deer with it and 300 gr HPs...lots of meat damage resulted. .357 and .44 kill just as dead and aren't as hard on the jerky supply.

.30-30 is a fine gun too. I just finished a 1950 vintage with regular rifling as a trapper. 16 1/4" barrel in .30-30 Ackley Improved and put a Ramline stock and a 1.5-5X scope on. weights about the same as the 1894 in .44 mag but can probably shoot 250 yds if needed. I'm still fireforming brass, but it shoots under an inch at 50 yds so far. I think I'm going to try it with 125 gr Sierra first.

They are all good guns...get one of each!!

quote:

Everything I shoot will be my own reloads. I live in central NY. Shots over 75 yards are rare.

This would be just about right for a 44 mag carbine.

quote:

What I don't have is a lot of money. I can afford the $400 for the Marlin plus scope, dies, etc.

You might be a little pressed on the budget. I might even skip the scope and look towards a peep sight. XS systems makes a nice bolt-on unit for the 1894.

quote:

The plan would be to find a load for the 240 gr. bullet around 1050 fps, which I believe is just under the speed of sound. Is that right? This would have to be as accurate as a decent .22 rimfire, obviously.

I am not sure that you will have a 200 yard varmint gun, but at 50-100 yards accuracy should be just fine. Use a light weight cast bullet and you might have something left over.

quote:

I can't think of any other production cartridges that could actually be practical for this double duty, given handloading. The level of accuracy needed might be too much to ask of a production lever gun.

Might be, if I were stuck on a double duty, I would say a bolt in 25-06, even though it has a bit more range than you may need in central NY.

John

Lowrider, 1980fps, is that in a 24" or 20"?

I read where they got 2000 fps with 19.0 lil gun and speer 158's.

JW invest in a book written by Paul Matthews called "40 years with the 45/70"...............great read, he was a big advocate of cast bullets and he gave a lot of small game plinking loads with cast lead bullets and tiny amounts of unique powder. If you will be shocked at how versatile he makes the 45/70................in fact he had loads for it that would be similar to .357 style plinking loads I thought !! He was apparently tightfor cash in his young days and he had some very good cost cutting ideas which alowd him to shoot his 45/70's a lot.

Cost wise, the .357 seems pretty cheap to me, with loads from .38 wadcutters to the Buffalo Bore 180s at 1800 fps (stubby Lever). And my shoulder notices the difference between the .357 (no real recoil) & .44 (can have definite recoil) Levers as well. The 30-30 is a proven classic.

The real thing is all Levers are fun.

6.5BR,

I have a 20" and it is tight. A gentleman named Hobie used 18 gr with the Rem 158. I tried it and got flatened primers and pressure signs so I dropped back to 16 gr. I eventually worked up to 17 gr and I chronyed the load and got 1980 FPS in my gun. SD was around 30 FPS and the load shoots well, so it is where I stopped. There is no way I could safely use 19 grs in MY gun....your results may vary.

I just got a Lee 6 hole 150 gr FPRN mold and I'm going to cast some to try light loads 2.7 gr of Bullseye with 38 cases. THAT is a sweet plinking load and would also work well on small critters. 148 gr HBWC also work well.

lowrider,

I guess brass and chambers all vary, but good point, yes I back off to if bad pressure signs, some guns peak sooner, and you are still getting top velocities.

People snuff at a 357 and at revolver velocities it is one thing, in a rifle, a WHOLE different animal.

I would be it is EXTREMELY high on the list for ft lbs of energy for powder burned-in a rifle barrel.

I was amazed at how quick those bullets get to 100 and 150 yds and what it does to milk jubs and 2 ltr bottles filled with water!!!

Loads of fun and open sights to boot.

quote:

So the question is: Is the Marlin 1894 up to this task?

My 1894PG in 44 Mag consistently shoots holes touching at 100. Perfect tree stand or medium range rifle. I put a Williams Foolproof peep sight with a red fiber optic pin front on it and it is accurate and deadly on deer and hogs. Light, manageable, accurate and affordable. Very good value. I shoot 240 gr Hornady XTPs over 23.5 grains of H110 and couldn't be more pleased.

6.5,

I grew up with lots of stories about my Grandfather feeding 4 families during the Depression with a .32-20 in Indiana County, PA. My Dad used to skin and gut then run the meat around to the family on a horse.

If the .32-20 worked 70 or so years ago, I'll bet it will now too!! The 357 Mag in a 1894 is a "magnum class" compared to .32-20....no doubt it will work just fine!!

jwk

I have two rifles in 44mag, one is a model 94 and the other is a 99/44, they make great little deer guns, but i dont know about small game, kind of a big bullet.

I have a BLR in .358 win, that can shoot pistol bullets(125gr to 180gr) for small game and regular 200gr and up for big game. The rifle weights 6 1/2 lb without scope and is a joy to carry and shoot. Much more potent big game cartridge and much better small game caliber with tons of pistol and rifle bullets.

Fgulla and lowrider, I hear you both, I have SERIOUSLY thought about a 358 in a BLR, heard the older ones are in more demand. Owners have nothing but praise for the accuracy and effectiveness.

The 358 win is a wham'em slam'em caliber. Funny how few of the 35's ever caught on...

John

I gotta agree..358 Win is a great round. I have a Savage in 35 Whelen and I have a Marlin .356 Win that will do a fine job on the big stuff and still shoot the little fellas too. Mine shoots 2" at 100 yd with the 180 gr Speer. They kick a bunch and are too heavy for deer (IMO). My 35 Rem is closer to an all around rifle for me at least....and that brings me back to the .357 Mag rifle...it really is sweet and all I need most of the time need inside 100 yds and I can play cowboy with it!!