Hello the campfire:
I have two old (1913 and 1916) model 1982 winchesters, one is a saddle ring carbine in 44-40 the other is a short rifle in 32-20. The 32-20 mayhave been cut down to about 21 inches.
What are the differances in the mod. 1892 and the mod. 1894? They both shoot great and are in 90-95% condition. Even the bores are crisp and clean. I use them to hunt whitetails once in a long while. I ight try to use then in black powder cartridge silowet, depending on the hundres yard group.
Thanks for the help
Judge Sharpe

Hi Judge-I'll have to give you part of something I have saved for reference because I certainly could not word it right..Hope it helps.

quote:

The 1894 and 1895 Winchesters are NOT particularly strong actions,having llooooooonnnnngg receiver walls and angled, rear locking bolts. In short, physics and geometry are against them from the outset. As mentioned above, the '94 AE suffers the further indignity of having the only strengthening metal available to it REMOVED to make way for the abominable ejection system.

The '86/M-71 and '92 Winchesters are by far the strongest of the "traditional" lever actions,with the nod going to the '86/71, with its square-to-bore vertical lockup, which situates the lugs about 2/3 the distance back from the breech-face as compared to a '94 or '95. The '86's receiver walls are robust and not chopped up or hollowed out as are those on the '94, in particular.

Jayco

Thanks
It makes you wonder why you see M94's but not more M92s.
JUdge Sharpe

They built the 454 levergun off the '92 action..65,000 PSI for the 454 and from what I here it is holding up just fine.

Jayco

Judge Sharp.
Not sure just what you mean, but to me the 92 is smaller and lighter and uses less powerful cartridges than the 94. The 92 action is supposed to be "slicker" also. Most 92's are very old and starting to be collectable, ie may be dearer than a 94, both s/hand.
Even though some new 92 copies are being made, most people would probably want a 94 in 30-30 for hunting, for a bit more grunt on deer size game. The 92 has two locking bolts, one each side, and the 94 has one at the rear, just in front of the hammer. Both are more than strong enough for the cartridges normaly used, and would "stretch" rather than "letgo".
The 94 for instance will probably burst the barrel/chamber before the action does anything.
John L.

Thanks for the info. As they are old family rifles, I am not going to sell, but I need to know a little about them.
Judge Sharpe

Maybe most of the 92's were sent out here. They were very popular, but most now have been rebarreled-reblued etc so arn't much for collectors. I confess I had one changed to .218 Bee.
John L.

One of the chapters in P.O. Ackley's 'Handbook for Shooters and Reloaders" talks about how the '94 action is a lot stronger than it's given credit for. It's an entertaining read. He pushed it to the limits, with pics.
Ken

Got alot of M92's in fairly ropey condition in Zim. Have never thought about re-barreling one to .44 Mag. Is this a reasonable proposition (the only factory winchesters I have seen in .44mag were M94's).

The Winchester 92 was the standard issue rifle for our police from 1894-1897 so there are plenty of early '92's arround. They became popular again in the 1920's and 30's.

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Got alot of M92's in fairly ropey condition in Zim. Have never thought about re-barreling one to .44 Mag. Is this a reasonable proposition (the only factory winchesters I have seen in .44mag were M94's).

The Winchester 92 was the standard issue rifle for our police from 1894-1897 so there are plenty of early '92's arround. They became popular again in the 1920's and 30's.

A helluvalotta winchester M-92s were converted to .44 magnum. I have a reproduction in .44 mag.....a great woods gun.

vapo-
One of those 1980's Brownings?
I have one too.

The 92 wins out over the 94 any day.

too bad the action is not just a little longer.

-Spencer

quote:

Originally posted by ShopCartRacing:
vapo-
One of those 1980's Brownings?
I have one too.

The 92 wins out over the 94 any day.

too bad the action is not just a little longer.

-Spencer

this is a recent repro....I bought it a couple years ago new. It has a manual safety on the rear of the tang which I think is BS...but it seems all hammer guns have adopted idiot proofing.

Mine is stamped...Winchester....Japan.

Judge,
The 1892 is a scaled down 1894 designed for cartridges like the 32-20, 25-20, 38-40 and 44-40, whereas the 1894 was for the larger 30-30, 32 Special, 25-35, 38-55, 32-40...

Pressures for both should not exceed 38,000 PSI and thats a bit hot IMO...

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Judge,
The 1892 is a scaled down 1894 ...

No way, it may be a scaled down 1886 or '76 or something, but it's a different design to the 94. But then I'm not a Gunsmith.
John L>

Ray-

Very much a different design.

Most notably, the 92 has two thick locking bolts at the rear of the bolt whereas the 94 has one thinner lug in the back middle of the bolt.

-Spencer

Ok, Have located a latish model M92 (1920's from the serial Number) in resasonable condition. Is it sacrilidge to rebarrel to .44 mag? .44-40 cases are hard to fins, I don't have dies, sizing dies for .427" bullets etc.

They're a bit slow here, if I were you I'd post on the Gunsmith section, to see if the old 92's will last with the 44Mag.
Ray only seems to check in here every week or so.
JL>

My 1896 manufacture '92 44/40 takes all regular 44mag .429 projectiles and shoots very well. A set of dies from Lee and some store bought cast bullets and you have a very nice rifle. Unprimer cases from Starline, Winchester or Remington should be available

Incidentally I just bought a pair of 5 digit 1893 manufacture 38/40 carbines with consecutive serial numbers. Seems they were supplied direct from Winchester for the Prisons Service.

Ganyana, why not load your 44WCF to 44Mag specs?

Have always been puzzled why Winchester and Browning made a completely new and inferior design for the 1894 instead of simply splitting the difference in size between the 86 and 92 and using the much stronger 86/92 design for the 30-30.
Was the 94 cheaper to manufacture?

quote:

Originally posted by JAL:
They're a bit slow here, if I were you I'd post on the Gunsmith section, to see if the old 92's will last with the 44Mag.
Ray only seems to check in here every week or so.
JL>

Years ago there was a lot of '92 winchesters converted to the .44 magnum...this was before they realized that the cost was a serious loss of collector's value. Many was also converted to .357 magnum as well.

quote:

Originally posted by vigillinus:
Have always been puzzled why Winchester and Browning made a completely new and inferior design for the 1894 instead of simply splitting the difference in size between the 86 and 92 and using the much stronger 86/92 design for the 30-30.
Was the 94 cheaper to manufacture?

John Browning designed the 94 action to take the midsize blackpowder loads(38-55, 32-40) that were popular at the time. I think he did his job brilliantly. He was after an action that would take these rounds in a lightweight "near" model 92 size rifle. It was designed in the blackpowder era but was easily strong enough for the then new smokeless 30-30, 32 Special, and 25-35 rounds. It is not as strong as the 86-92 designs it fits between but I'd bet a stretched 92(more likely a "slightly" reduced 86, remember, a 30wcf isn't much shorter than the 45-70) would have been significantly heavier and less popular than the 94. Proof is in the number of rifles manufactured and the fact that the 94 remained in production thoughout the 20th century and the 86, 92 did not. A lot of the reason for that is the popularity of the cartridges and it WAS easier to manufacture. Modern CNC machining has brought back the 92 (at much higher prices the 86 & 95 in limited production) but the 94, even with all the used ones out there, "probably" still outsells them all combined.

You guys are splitting hairs, the locking lugs are different I agree, but they both work off the same principle, but the 92 will not take the 25-35,30-30 ect. its a scaled down 94 or if you insist a 86, but then the 86 has some modifications also, I was simply refering to the frame size and shape...