Hey guys,

I also posted this in Reloading, but you guys might be a bit more quick to respond.

I just picked up a box (250 qty) of Laser-Cast 405 grain .459" diameter and 100 Remington cases. I've got a good supply of IMR 3031 that I intend to use.

I'll be shooting though my Marlin Guide Gun and am looking for a powder weight that is a bit stouter than a plinker and less than a teeth rattler.

If you got a good one, please let me know. Also I'm assuming that gas checks are not required at a lower powder charge.

Thanks

At http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp the mfg suggests the following:

Cartridge: 45-70 Government (Trapdoor Rifles)

405 GR. C.O.L. 2.540"

Starting Loads
IMR3031 45.5 grs 1597 fps 17,300 CUP

Maximum Loads
IMR3031 48.5 grs 1706 fps 21,100 CUP

May not sound like much, being safe in a Trapdoor and all, but a 400 gr @ 1600 fps is serious medicine I can assure you.

I would think that the above starting load would be a good place to start. If they are in fact hard cast, they will most likely have a little more velocity than published velocities for jacketed bullets with less pressure.

Good shooting,

HL

I load 45grns of 3031 w/405 all the time for my gun. Its a very easy load and gives sufficent accuracy. You'll be pleased.

quote:

Originally posted by HL:
I would think that the above starting load would be a good place to start. If they are in fact hard cast, they will most likely have a little more velocity than published velocities for jacketed bullets with less pressure.

This is my first foray with cast bullets. All things being equal, do cast bullets tend to have lower pressures and higher velocities than jacketed bullets?

In other words, if I have jacketed bullet data, can I safely assume that if I will be at or below the listed pressures when using cast bullets at the same weight?

Thanks!

At 1700fps, you'll notice when the rifle fires. At 50.0 grains you'll be in the low 1800's and you'll remember when rifle fires.

You'll probably notice "powder zombies" with the starting load - 3031 burns cleaner at higher pressures.

If your bullet/bore don't fit each other, you'll get leading & tumbling at 1500fps or lower.

quote:

Originally posted by Slatts:

quote:

Originally posted by HL:
I would think that the above starting load would be a good place to start. If they are in fact hard cast, they will most likely have a little more velocity than published velocities for jacketed bullets with less pressure.

This is my first foray with cast bullets. All things being equal, do cast bullets tend to have lower pressures and higher velocities than jacketed bullets?

In other words, if I have jacketed bullet data, can I safely assume that if I will be at or below the listed pressures when using cast bullets at the same weight?

Thanks!

Generally, cast bullets will offer lower pressure than jacketed bullets of the same weight with an equal powder charge. This is due to cast bullets generally being shorter to take up less case capacity seated to the same COL and have less bearing surface, softer than a copper jacket and give way to the rifling easier even though they may be of a slightly larger diameter and hard cast, less bearing surface due to lube grooves, and the lube reduces friction. However, there are some instances where this is not the case but if one is prudent they should be able to work with jacketed starting loads using cast bullets and working up from there carefully.

Slats,

Bhn of 24. I'd say that qualifies as hard!

Rich
DRSS

Well, I consolidated alot of advice and ended up loading one hundred cases with 48 grains of IMR 3031 behind the 405g LaserCast. I picked that charge weight to give a guesstimated MV between 1500 and 1600 in the 1895GG, but had no chrony to confirm.

I gave them a field trial at the deer lease at 25 yards and then at 100 yards. Whoa Stinkeroo! These were the crappiest groups I've shot.... from any gun....ever. Probably 6 MOA or worse on average...from a dead solid rest off a shooting bench.

I shortcut the load development process and paid the price. I'll use them to plink around with and save the brass for more judicious loading pursuits in the future.

I have not shot any 405gr loads, but I am using 350gr.LBT LFN cast bullets.

Using 45gr. of IMR 4198, shots are hitting within an inch at 50yds. I just loaded these up to get used to shooting the 45-70.

I have not chrono'ed this yet, but according to the speer manual, I would expect the bullets to be doing a minimum of 1800fps, but with my experience with cast bullets in the 22bhn to 35bhn range, they are most likely going 100-150fps faster than published velocities.

I did notice the recoil in my 1895 Marlin felt greater shooting the 300gr. Hornady Jacketed bullets than it did shooting my 350gr. cast bullets which actually weigh 355gr, both using the starting loads for each.

I load REM 405 gr bullets with 52gr imr-3031 in my 45-70 guide gun.Very accurate load.