I don't claim to be a rifle smith. But I have rechambered a couple of Browning 1886s to 45/90.
Only takes a few minutes to do so with a 45/90 reamer.

I have run 300gr HV loads (just like Winchester did bitd) through those guns for years with no issues on feeding or function.

Today I am told that there are "many" internal changes required and parts need to be "lengthened" to get a 45/90 running in a 45/70 and the cost is $700.

Seems like smoke up my skirt but hey I am no rifle smith.

I understand you can run the bill up by remarking the barrel..but why would you as a 45/70 still works just fine...reblue and of course the chore of pulling a '86 apart and putting it back together. But $700?

What did I miss?

Check with Doug Turnbull. He makes a living doing that and color casehardening the new ones.
The limiting factor is OAL.

Rich
DRss

My experience tells me 300gr lead 45/90s duplicating the original factory loads in OAL don't have any issues running in factory 45/70 '86s after simply recutting the chamber to 45/90 while watching the head space.

Just wonder who else was doing '86 work these days. Or looking for anyone more experienced with the '86 to comment.

IMHO, it's all about cartridge OAL. I line up with you, I'd rather have a bit longer case length and less bullet sticking out. But, I have mine in 50-110, so what do I know...

Rich
DRSS

Rich you are truely a big bore guy! I had a 50/100 Winchester some time back but the dang thing wouldn't shoot fre chit. Finally sold it thankfully and did the 45/90 thing.

RDB,
Thanks for your post. I have sent it on to some friends that have wanted to convert their Miroku made Browning and Winchester rifles from .45-70 to .45-90, but were discouraged by the "common knowledge" that it was much more complicated than just reaming out to .45-90 specs.
They developed their ".45-90 envy" after working with me on some hot 300, 400,405, and 450 grain loads for my Miroku Winchester .45-90 WCF with 26 inch octagon barrel. There some interesting .45-90 "express loads" available on some web sites and we created some very effective loads for jacketed and mono solid bullets. Lots of fun, but of little application in North America, unless you get your kicks shooting through 5/8" steel plates at 50 yards. Unfortunately, that will ruin a perfectly good man sized pistol practice plate.

I'm about to do it again. I had traded off my last 45/90 (a Custom Browning oct. rifle that I rechambered and cut to 22" and added high grade wood) a few months ago and just couldn't live with out another.

Hardest part of that conversion was getting the mag tube to stay one in recoil with the 300g GC lead bullets, and getting the rear sight low enought to hit point of aim at 100yards. So not a huge effort by any means.

Picked up a high grade LWT Winchester today. Going to ditch the rebounding hammer and will have a quick "remodel" for any one else wanting to go back to a 1/2 cock hammer when I am done.

Here is what I picked up today
Case hardened hammer and lever to come...

RDB,
That is a beautiful rifle; treat it well.
Can you do us a favor and document your .45-70 to .45-90 project when you do it? I have seen many posts on the minimum work needed for such a conversion and good documentation could put to rest much of the speculation on the conversion.

Not being a gunsmith and wanting a .45-90, I just bought one of the Davidson's 1/500 a few years back, had the action smoothed out and a tang sight installed and I am quite pleased with it.

Will do. But remember I am only loading 300gr cast bullets to original Winchester 300 Express HV OAL (iirc 2.80") cartridge specs. Now I just need to track down my old 45/90 reamer. ...Mike...oh Mike...can you hear me

I can't find my reference material but some where I seem to remember Harold Johnson of 45 and 50 Alaskan fame ...say if he had to do it over he's just use a 45/90 and forget the rest.

I went back and looked up the chamber and cartridge prints.

Winchester's 1917 45/90 print shows a max OAL cartridge of 2.765" and a case length of 2.405".

A number of places you'll see 2.88" OAL as a Winchester 1886 max but even the 50/110 was only loaded to 2.75" loaded OAL.

From the various original Winchester cartridge prints they show 2.765" as their max OAL cartridge length fro the '86.

Obvious if your ammo is too long...it won't easily fit through the loading gate. If you do it get through the gate then the lever won't be able to rise the lifter internally as the protruding bullet will stop it.

If that happens easy enough take a screw driver and lever your bullet back into the case so the gun will cycle and eject the offending round.

I load my 50-110 to 2.74 oal and they feed.

Rich

I have to ask: Why? Unless you're stuffing the case with black powder. It seems to me that the 45-70 will hold all the smokeless powder the rifle can stand pressure wise.

quote:

Originally posted by Leo L.:
I have to ask: Why? Unless you're stuffing the case with black powder. It seems to me that the 45-70 will hold all the smokeless powder the rifle can stand pressure wise.

Easy answer. Because a bigger case will lower the pressures everything else being equal.

The newest '86s (Browning and Winchester) are generally accepted to work safely in the 42K psi range. A 45/70 case simply doesn't take full advantage of the '86 design.

Doug Turnbull mentioned here of using a 50K psi proof load in one of his personal and original Winchesters.

quote:

My 1887 vintage 86 has fitted bolts and will not have a tight lever even when shot with proof loads in the 50K range. The 86 action is rated to about 42,000# no one has really determind what it is rated for sure...In a 86 Jap or US if the bolts are not fit properly than at 46K the case fills the chamber tightly

45/70 in a '86 reminds me of using a 458 Win mag in a full length CZ 550 magnum action.