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Are the magazine rifles (Savage 99, BLR's, 1895's) more accurate than the traditional tube fed (Marlin/Win) lever actions? What kind of accuracy can one expect from the new "flex-tipped" loadings? DRSS & Bolt Action Trash | ||
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Can't say what one is better.I own 2 win 94s in 30-30and 3 sav 99s one in 308,one in 300sav.I like to shoot both kinds.If I feel like a scope i go with one of the sav or for iron sights i pick the win 94.The win is my choice for shooting turkeys,it doesn't tear up the meat.Good Luck | |||
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I've seen fellas shooting their steel-frame BLRs getting groups in the 1.25 to 1.75 inch range. When it wore a scope my Guide Gun "Mjolnir" would shoot Winchester Supreme 300 gr Nosler Partitions into less than two inches at 100. I'd guess it's a rifle by rifle kinda thing. | |||
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Normally I would guess the BLR, 99 or other modern gun would be more accurate. However, I bought one of the marlin XLR's in 308 ME. Using the leverevolution ammo I get single hole groups at 100 yards. Can't beat the combo for the most accurate lever I've ever shot and I own over 20 and have shot lots more. | |||
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Same here-- I have had some a that were tack drivers and others that were terrible. Overall I'd rate the "modern" designs a tad more accurate. DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
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While I have shot, and seen shot some "tube fed" Winchester and Marlin lever guns, I would think a magazine fed Lever should be more accurate... But I do think, as far as most hunting goes, it does not make much difference. Also I have never encountered a lever rifle that was "badly" inacurate, except for a buddys 300 Savage Model 99. It would not hold even a "deer hunters" close range zero, from one weekend to another... His wife used that rifle, and I RE sighted it in every weekend for her... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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The Browning BLR's, old and newer versions, have always shot pretty well for me, but only caliber has been the 308. They always seemed to like the Sierra 165 GameKing and they will hold 1" groupings at 100yds for 5 shots. Some years ago had an old Marlin Marauder, 16" barrel, 4rnd tube, and w/ lead 170gr. flat nose would do the same groups. Gave to a friend of mine and last I heard it is riding around in his pickup and do know he eats a lot of deer pretty much year around. | |||
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Brownigs like the BLR are said to be accurate as they are really a conventional bolt retracted by a lever. Also the Winchester 88 had a good reputation. | |||
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My experience suggests to me that there is really more than one question and answer here. If the question is "Which is the most accurate lever gun from the bench?", then my snswer would be "For me, several different Savage M99's in .250-3000, all of which would reliably shoot 3/4" groups with the ammo they liked the best. And, they were sometimes beaten by a Winchester M88 which was rechambered to .30/.284. It produced a fair number of honest 1/2" 5-shot groups from the bench. My Browning BLRs in .308 & .358 were third most accurate, doing generally about an inch or so from the bench.. BUT, if the question is "Which lever gun is the most accurate for shooting at game animals in the field?", I have a different answer. For me, in the field I find the "feel" of the rifle to be far more important. There, I like rifles which seem to be an extension of my body. They handle well for me, and as a result shoot better when I'm pulling the trigger. In those situations, the best I've had so far are an ANCIENT Model '94 button-mag carbine in .25-35, a Winchester Model 71 in .348 Winchester, and a Winchester Model '86 light-weight button-mag carbine in .33 Winchester. So, I guess I would say in general, from the bench I've had the best luck with the rotary -mag type lever guns, but for practical use in the field I've done my personal best with the under-the-barrel tubular magazine type guns. f I was going to buy another today, I'd try to find another nice Model 71 or '86 1/2-mag carbine. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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AC - Now if you could just get over your fear of recoil, you could add the Winchester 1895 .405 to your list of rifles that handle well in the field and come naturally to bear on the target game, as an extension or your body.  NRA Life Benefactor Member, DRSS, DWWC, Whittington Center,Android Reloading Ballistics App at http://www.xplat.net/ | |||
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Well, I never had a fear of recoil until I got these two specific.405s  I actually enjoyed my .577, and though I can't say I enjoyed the .475 A&M, I didn't detest it. I had a light pair of original Mauser sporters in 10.75x68 and they were very mild to shoot even though neither gun weighed much if any over 8 lbs and they didn't have recoil pads, but steel buttplates. My double rifles in large chamberings were all pussycats. But these two things!!  Sure wish I could afford the plane tickets...I'd fly some of you guys up here and let you demonstrate your machismo shooting techniques on these rifles for me.   But I do really like M95s in most chamberings. One of the other rifles which always came up well for me, so shot well in the field, was a M'95 carbine in .303 British I had when I lived in Saskatchewan. It is probably still there, as I sold it at the "Saskaboosh" gun show one year around 1975 or '76. Best wishes, AC My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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Good answers, and especially a big thanks to Alberta Canuck; well written, indeed!  While structurally I believe that a rifle whose barrel is free-floating is the most accurate, I know of several tube guns that are amazingly accurate. Also my Win 1895's are dead accurate despite the barrel band connecting the forend to the barrel (i.e. not truly free-floating). If you're looking at top sub-MOA accuracy, then for sure the Sako Finnwolf will be hard to beat. Then, again, if you haven't read Jeff Cooper's "Art of the Rifle", I suggest you get a copy. One of the principles he brings forward is that of practical accuracy: any gun will shoot more accurately than the user actually does, so discussion as to gun types etc. in terms of accuracy has no practical application, it's nice theory. If I still go back to your original question, I think that yes, by type and on paper, the non-tube magazine guns will be more accurate. As to how much more: dunno! Then it's more up to the individual gun and if it shoots real bad, maybe just changing the type of ammo will help. - Lars/Finland A.k.a. Bwana One-Shot | |||
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I've seen some scoped Marlins in .35 Rem that could place three rounds under an inch. Savage 99s range from very accurate to terrible, depending on the model and when it was made. 99Fs with their whippy barrels, are not known for tack driving accuracy. I had a BLR that was as accurate as a bolt action and I currently have a Winchester 88 that can hold an inch at 100 yards (three-shot group). | |||
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I have loaded for Savage 99s in .300 and .250-3000, and both were 1 1/4-inch guns with good loads -- the .300 being scoped and the .250 with 1:14 twist having a Lyman tang peep. I have had scoped Marlin Cowboys in .38-55 and .45-70 that would often go under an inch for five shots. I have high hopes for an old Marlin 336 rebarreled to .25-35, as this caliber can be very nicely accurate. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Bill- Have you just rebarreled a 336 to 25-35? Or are you on the lookout for one? If the latter, I've been watching for one for years, with no success. I believe they did make some after they changed from the M-36 to the M-336, but I have never been lucky enough to run onto one for sale. My '94 octagon barreled carbine I bought in 1961 or '62 when it was already 40 or more years old was extremely accurate...as good as any of my bolt guns of that day and age at woods ranges...and I somehow feel a 336 would be even more so. Would sure like to have one to find out, anyway. If you did re-barrel one and have tried it out, why don't you let us all know how it shoots, and whether you ran into any little mechanical quirks which had to be dealt with? My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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Alberta: I had an early, 3/4-magazine 336 in .30/30 that I sent with a Wind River octagonal barrel to John Taylor in Washington. He installed the new barrel and chambered it. It needs sights, a bluing job and to have the forend and cap relieved to fit the octagon barrel profile. I am sure it will be a nice shooter. Years ago I had an early Winchester 94 .25-35 with tang peep that shot very pleasing groups with mixed factory ammo. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Thanks, Bill. Guess I'll have to do something similar one of these days, though I will likely do it myself (because I can and because I guess I am a cheapskate). BTW, I am not familiar with "Wind River" barrels. Can you tell me a bit about them? I would realy love to come across an old flatbolt Marlin in that chambering, or in .25-36 at an affordable price, but I never have. I came on a case of .25-36 ammo once(in 1959), but the guy wouldn't even consider parting with the rifle. Now I have a Winchester "Trails-end" carbine in .25-35, but it is so "tinny" and the sights are so poor it seems more like a toy than a real rifle like my old M94 .25-35 was. Have fun with yours. You probably have a real keeper there... | |||
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Alberta: I think the Wind Rivers have come and gone, and heard that some were subbed out to some good barrel makers. They were available for a couple of years from Brownells, where I got mine. Seems like Midway had a couple too, but I haven't looked for them for a while. They seemed like affordable octagon replacements for Winchester and Marlin lever guns, so I bought one. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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For me the best "feeling" lever action is the 1895. When shouldered it seems the best handling to me. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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My 336 30-30 will keep the pointy 130 gr HP Speers under an inch at 100 yards when I do my part! It's my yote load, took one last year at about 200 yards with a neck shot! There are many that shot the RanchDog postal match that could and do get under .5" at 100yards groups regularly! So the firearm is as accurate as the shooter! Now open site my normal with my Win 94 30-30 with cast 170 gr Lees is about 2-2.5" some days I get 1-1.5"! One shot One Kill | |||
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I can also say that my 1895 Take Down in 405 WCF shoots as good as any ironsighted lever I have shot at 100 yards. If a person is worried about lever rifle accuracy, then I would think ranges longer than 100 yards and scopes come into play. DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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N E 450 No2 Agreed! My limit unscoped is 150-175 yards! Anything further I want a scope! Three of my five levers are scoped! The one I grab is determined as to where I'm hunting! Close thick brush- Iron sites! More open places/fields and such Scoped! One shot One Kill | |||
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Although I don't have much experience with levers, but my Sako Finnwolfs are more accurate than my 94 or 1899. I have both 243 and 308. Both shoot 1.25 moa or better when I am doing my part. **************** NRA Life Benefactor Member | |||
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At one time I had a Winchester 94 Lagacy in 44 magnum. The hang tag said the twist was 1 in 26 inches. I put scope on it (it was the angle eject model) and it would shoot the hornady 300 grain ammo into better than one inch. My marlin 94 will not do that. I don't know why I sold it except something else caught my eye. | |||
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