Has anyone conducted any bullet tests, read any bullet tests, or made field observations on game to determine what is farthest ranges that 150 & 170 grain bullets will reliably expand when fired at standard velocities (2000-2200 fps respectively)?

I spoke with a Marlin Rep at the SHOT Show in Las Vegas regarding their XLR rifles using Hornaday Leverevolution ammo very accurate out 250+ yards he said he could cover his shots with a silver dollar and they've had good results using the ammo on deer and elk.It doesn't answer your question but the reps were well pleased with the results using 160gr ammo

quote:

Originally posted by Thunderstick:
Has anyone conducted any bullet tests, read any bullet tests, or made field observations on game to determine what is farthest ranges that 150 & 170 grain bullets will reliably expand when fired at standard velocities (2000-2200 fps respectively)?

I own a Ruger M-77 MKII in 7.62 X 39 m/m and have used Winchester's .30-30 Cal. Silvertips on Deer in Ky. I load 23.5 grains using IMR-4198 and their 150 grain Silvertip (old style) and receive a velocity reading of 2,200 FPS. I've taken over six deer most under 75 yards & one shot kills. Expansion was as good as if shot from a .30-30 rifle. I head shot one buck at 100 yards but would not recommend shot at over 75 yards max.

Haven't we settled all the questions about the 30-30's capabilities in whatever loading long before now? There are still people around who think a 150 gr. bullet is a proper 30-30 cartridge -for anything? There are still people who want to know about "expansion" capabilities of a 30-30? Frankly, you people remind me of a Rip Van Winkle waking up and asking to be brought up to date. Old questions settled nearly a century ago don't become new again - just because babies are asking old questions. Sorry to be so harsh - but let's grow up and move on!

I apologize to you, Thunderstick, for that response you received from another. IT WAS UNWARRANTED. N.S.

Thunderstick, what I know about the .30-30 is confined to 4 bullets, none of which have been employed beyond 85 yards. Hornady 150 RNs, and 170 FNs are dead reliable to that range insofar as terminal performance, and just an educated guess I'd say at least on out to at least 150 yards based on their effect on innards. I've never recovered a bullet from hog or deer using the .30-30...Hornady or anything else, regardless of aspect on the shot. Caliber hole in, 1 to 1-1/2" exit hole, insides are a mess on a heart/lung shot.

A friend uses Remington factory fodder with 150 gr. Core-Lokts and has much the same results. I've used the Speer 150 gr FB Spitzer in a Contender, ranges very short as I use the Carbine exclusively for still hunting bottom country. The exit seems a bit small for the most part but I usually take neck shots so I don't know that it matters much. Were I shooting at ranges a bit longer I might consider a different bullet, but it is a circumstance very unlikely where and how I hunt. FWIW, I think that with the proper spitzer design the cartridge would be effective out to around 250 yards, whether the gun is would be another question. MV's run in the 2400'ish range with my loads using the 150 grain bullets, and about 2200 fps for the 170s using Reloader 15.

Oh, and what Mr. Sherlock said, +1.

Thunderstick i guess it depends on the rifle . In lever actions you can get barrel lengths from 16 1/2" to 28" and if you are using a single shot you can probibly add alot of distance when using 130-150 grain BTSP bullets

I personally am using the win. 94 with a 20" barrel -- my only center fire lever and 30-30. To keep the data pertinent, I suppose that it would be more accurate to talk about the impact velocity at which a standard 30-30 bullet would reliably open with sufficient terminal effect, so that barrel length differentials are taken into account.

Up to this point I have been a strictly bolt-action rifleman, when it comes to big game hunting. When Winchester's closing was imminent I decided to pick up a 94. My son would also like to hunt with the lever action, so me being a detail-oriented person, am exploring all the options, weighing the information, and taking it into account with the handloads for this rifle.

Since it may be my son's primary rifle for a while (starting hunting next year) I have it scoped with a 4 power rebuilt Weaver K4, hence the questions about maximum yardage shots. To date it only seems to like the 150 and 170 grain bullets the best, with a preference for 170s.

The biggest disappointment is that after it is cleaned, it shoots the first shot about 7" high, and takes about 3 more to settle into its consistent zero. This means hunting strictly with a fouled bore, and no cleaning at night after having hunted in inclement weather, unless it is going to be promptly fouled again.

So theres a bit of background to the question.

I have the same rifle and mine just loves the factory winchester 170 silvertips. I have no experience with it other then close range deer hunting. From what i gathered through online talk alot of guys say the 150 is just as good as the 170 on deer but i prefer the 170's I would not hesitate to use my rifle for close range elk or moose and if i were to use handloads i would use a nosler partition or a swift a-frame . the silvertip should also get the job done and federal loads the nosler partition if you use factory ammo. You may also want to try grizzly ammunition if you want to hunt larger then deer or black bear. The remington factory 170 core-lokt bullet has probibly taken more deer and black bear then any other 30/30 bullet hear in the north east. Its all about shot placement. Good luck Tanoose

I wish I could get the 170 grain winchester Silvertips or Power Points in component form for reloading, but appears that they are a strictly factory option (except for 150 PPs). The factory loaded 170 PPs shoot well, but I have not tried the Silvertips.
Factory ammo gets pretty salty with a lot of shooting.

I have shot a couple of deer with a Winchester Trapper 30-30. I think for deer sized game it does not make much difference, use the load is the most accurate in your rifle. I would definately give the new Hornady Leverloution ammo a try.
I took one deer with the PMC Starfire all copper bullet and was impressede. For bigger game, like big hogs or black bear I would use either the PMC Staarfire or the Federal load with the 170 gr Nosler Partition. Both of those shot real good in my Trapper and my Marlin.

Gerry

Guess you havent heard of all the new bullets and factory loads for the 30-30, who's the Rip Van Winkle? If you dont like a persons question move on, no one is interested in your B.S.

fgulla:

Since you are from that great deer hunting state of New Jersey, you'll forgive me for doubting your qualifications to discuss the 30-30 in any forum. What you have read in magazines and what you have heard about any loading of any cartridge often bears little relationship to what the cartridge does in the field on live animals. I'm going to control my Irish temper and overlook your insult -but I would strongly suggest that you shoot some 35 or so whitetails before you lecture me on the 30-30. (BTW, {really try to believe me on this}, bullet shape is much less important than bullet placement)

Though I like the Nosler partitions in the 30-30
I must admit I haven't shot anything with one yet... though I don't know that they will perform any worse than the 170gr flatpoints have.

How much do the solid base flat points expand?

I have no idea, as I've never recovered one
the dozen or so I've poked into deer have all made exit holes.

AllanD

The .30/30 was a great improvement 100+ years ago and it is still a great short range deer rifle. New bullets have increased the range..a little. But, mostly the new shape will sell boxes of ammo. Nothing wrong with that. From my experience, none of that in the "Empire State" I am sad to say, the .30/30 is adequate and will expand quite well to 200 yards. I have had more deer drop in their tracks with a .30/30 than with any other cartridge. I am not exactly sure why. But, a great conversation starter it is.

A side note. 35 whitetails is pretty impressive. I know alot of 15 year olds that have barely reached that number. Maybe we should get their thoughts on the .30/30 too. Though it is not the rifle of choice anymore for hunters just starting out. Course most of them, given their limited experience, wouldn't feel comfortable sounding off on the topic.

I like the 170 grain Partition and Remington Coke-Lokt. Regan Nonneman, the MO 'smith who is probably 1 of the best Marlin 'smiths around, shoots 170 grain Hornadys in his 30-30AI. I've seen the bullets that he's recovered from his testing media and they look like perfect mushrooms, much better looking than the 170 grain Partitions, but I still like Partitions.

Jeff

Well I have not heard about the Speer 170gr.
I started hunting with a 30-30, and it also got me started in reloading. That Marlin 226 with it's 20" bbl. just loved a healthy dose of H414 over a WLR primer driving a Speer 170gr to just shy of 2200fps.
I shot 3 deer with that load from ranges of 25yds, 85yds, and 150yds, all 3 shots were pass throughs, and all 3 deer were shot through the boiler room, all 3 deer showed tremendous damage to the vitals and exit wounds were from quater sized to Loonie sized(thats a tad smaller than a US 1/2 dollar)
I was drawn to the Speer bullets because of their high BC, .304 for the 170gr. bullet.
What ever you shoot in your 30-30 will work and bullet failures are scarce in this caliber, heck you have a hard time getting 2500fps out of any bullet designed for the venerable thurdy thurdy.
Good luck

Another vote for the Speer 170 grainer. I load 32/ww748 in my Marlin 336A (microgroove). It's damn close to MOA shooting, and at 125 yards on a deer, was not recovered (broadside lung shot, 160 lb Whitetail deer). Exit wound was ~ 2", and no blood shot meat. It moved (slowly) about 15 yards after being hit.

I too was attracted to the good BC of the 170 grain Speer. It does expand well on woodchucks too out to 150+ yards. No bullet recovered, but exit hole was golf ball sized.

I like the .308 Speer 170 grainer in my 1970's made Marlin 336A (24" bbl) in 30-30. It's the only bullet I shoot through it.

I hope this little bit helps. I needed a zero for .30-30 relods so I shot some HSM ammo from Cabela's. These were 150 grain flat points. The average 5 shot was 2273 FPS. that equals about 1721 muzzle energy and 1287 at 100 yards(per handloads.com calculator).

Gerry

Coming from N.Y. thats a good one, how do you know how many deer i've killed? Do you even know where i hunt? Of course not because block heads like you know everything, and please spare me the hot-headed irish temper bull shit, i dont care about you or any of your ignorance....stick that in your blarney stone and smoke it!!!!

In the .30-30, I think it's hard to beat a 170 Hornady at 2150-2200 fps. It's not hard to kill a deer with anything. 150-200 yards is far enough for any .30-30, really 150.

gerry....this is the US ....Irish immaturity counts for nothing

As long as we're talking .30-30, you fellas ought to try the Speer 130 grains over whatever powder you're using for the 170's. It jacks velocity up over 2500 fps and kills really well.

However, being the curmudgeon I am, I have gone backwards in bullet technology. I'm using the Lyman 311041 at about 1800 fps. I cast them from wheelweights, tumble them in Lee liquid Alox, seat a gas check and let'em fly. Out to about 125 yards that wide, flat meplat kills like the hammers of hell, punching a one-caliber hole all the way through. It lets a lot of air in, and a lot of blood out. I haven't had to track one yet. Generally, they take three or four steps and lay down.

A buddy tells me that if I wrap that cast bullet in two layers of plumbers teflon tape, I can take velocity over 2000 fps without leading. I haven't tried it, so I don't know, but it will be something to play with after the hunting season is over.

The .30-30 isn't a .30-06. Don't try to make it into one. That new Hornady ammo is a solution looking for a problem.

quote:

Originally posted by PawPawD:
The .30-30 isn't a .30-06. Don't try to make it into one. That new Hornady ammo is a solution looking for a problem.

But as we all know a 30-06 isn't necissary to kill deer either, so the 30-30 is plenty.

I've shot deer with both and have never NEEDED to shoot a deer twice with either, though I have
shot deer twice because they stood around waiting to be shot again....
the "keep shooting until they fall down" theory and if they try to get up shoot them again then as well...


AllanD

quote:

Originally posted by gerrys375:
fgulla:

Since you are from that great deer hunting state of New Jersey, you'll forgive me for doubting your qualifications to discuss the 30-30 in any forum. What you have read in magazines and what you have heard about any loading of any cartridge often bears little relationship to what the cartridge does in the field on live animals. I'm going to control my Irish temper and overlook your insult -but I would strongly suggest that you shoot some 35 or so whitetails before you lecture me on the 30-30. (BTW, {really try to believe me on this}, bullet shape is much less important than bullet placement)

Killed 35 whitetails?! A WHOLE 35?! wow. I'd done that before I was 14. A good many of them were with a 30-30 using 150gr core-lokt. Before you go throwing stones you'd better come with more credentials than 35 deer. yeesh....i'd be ashamed to admit i'd only killed 35 deer.

Ryan

Whats really funny is this idiot doesnt even know that in N.J. one can kill over two dozen deer a season in N.Y. you can only kill a whole 4 a season and thats if you get a doe tag, no wonder he's only killed 35.

plus the fact that there are several new 30-30 rounds available(Hornady leverevolution, PMC star-fire, Winchester power point plus, etc etc) talk about Rip Van Winkle, he hit it on the nose, but its him no one else.

God, i love these trolls, someone asks a legitimate question and they get bull shit like this, what a douche.

I have a partial box of the Speer 130 gr. flat points that I'd like to trade for some speer 170 grain flat points for my 30-30....mine just dosnt like the 130s at all.
Anybody interested?