My first hunt in South Africa (in 2000) was in the bushveld in the Limpopo Province. (Farm hunt, plains game only.) After the first few days of being in that terrain I remember thinking to myself that a Marlin .45-70 Guide Gun (or the regular rifle with a 22" barrel) would be very useful for hunting plains game in the bushveld. A good 350 or 400 gr bullet at around 1800-2000 fps would probably work fine. (I've never hunted anything with a .45-70 though I have owned a few rifles.) The old .450 Nitro for Black Powder Express 3 /14" cartridge (same case but NOT the same load as the .450 Nitro Express 3 1/4"!) fired a 365gr bullet at a listed 2100 fps. Souped up .45-70 loads and the .450 Marlin basically duplicate that.


[.450 Marlin ballistics are nothing new!!!!]

However, for dangerous game I don't think any .45-70 load really makes the grade. The question of whether it's legal or not really only applies to hunting the dangerous game (Big 5). But, for plains game in the bushveld I can see where it would be a viable option. (I think Zimbabwe has some energy requirements that may rule out factory level [trapdoor level] .45-70 loads on some plains game. I don't have the rules handy for reference.)

Come to think of it, I have a Browning 1895 in .30-06 that I may just drag along to South Africa one of these days.


Theodore Roosevelt's son, Kermit, drops a 70-pound leopard with his 1895 .405 Winchester in this sketch by Phillip Goodwin in TR's book, African Game Trails.
http://www.rifleshootermag.com/featured_rifles/big_0401/



http://www.rarewinchesters.com/articles/art_1895.htm

-Bob F.

HI,

I am very surprised on the African forum I placed the same question being fair and I have so far gotten very good answers and have not been attacked for the post,Kev

45/70

405 gr. J.F.N. (2000 fps / M.E. 3597 ft. lbs.)

430 gr. L.B.T.- L.F.N. - G.C. (1925 fps / M.E. 3537 ft. lbs.)

350 gr. J.F.N. (2150 fps / M.E. 3427 ft. lbs.)

500 gr. FMJFN (1625 fps /M.E. 2931 ft. lbs.)

These load's are from buffalo bore and are NOT max load's but close to it.
and i have shot alot of there 45/70 ammo to know just how good it is

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#4570

================================
50 Alaskan
525 gr.WFNGC 1850 fps/ M.E. 3989 ft. lbs

500 gr. JFN bonded 1850 fps/ M.E. 3799 ft. lbs.

450 gr.LFNGC 2100 fps/ M.E. 4406 ft. lbs.

450 gr.JFN bonded 2050 fps/ M.E. 4198 ft. lbs
=====================================

450 Marlin

430 gr. LBT-LFN (1900 fps /M.E. 3446 ft. lbs.)

405 gr. JFN. (1975 fps / M.E. 3507 ft. lbs.)

====================================

458 Winchester Magnum

350 gr. JFN Expander 2550 fps/ M.E. 5052 ft. lbs

400 gr. JRN Expander 2400 fps/ M.E. 5115 ft. lbs

450 gr. JRN Expander 2250 fps/ M.E. 5058 ft. lbs

======================

All the above can be had in lever action......
i have one being built in 458 off a browning lever myself


================

The lever i am having converted came to me stock as a
300 Winchester Mag...

Martin
I'm taking a Winchester 1886, 45-70, with 445 grain hard cast bullets moving at 1,800 to 1,900 fps. Basically a case full of IMR-3031.
And a Winchester 1895, 405, with 350 grain hard cast bullets moving at 1,900 to 2,000 fps. Again this is a case full of IMR 3031.
And I'm considering taking my 375 Whelen loaded with a 260 grain hard cast moving at 2,100 to 2,200 fps. This is a case full of IMR 4064.
Do you see any problem using these for plains game?
I try to get out to the range every two weeks, fire offhand at 100 to 200 yards, firing 30 to 50 rounds at steel gongs
Yes, my eyes are nearly crossed afterwards but the practice is good for me. As I get closer to the hunt I'll up the practice up to every week.
Jim

Potts,
Man, you need to learn some text communication skills.

Kev,

I think a lot of it has to do with "social conditioning"

for example it is acceptable in some country's to smoke hash while a grave sin to drink alcohoel.....in a country like Australia it's the opposite where socially conditioned to feel quite comfortable about drinking 24 pots of beer at the pub and writeing yourself off....yet your committing a crime if you smoke hash/dope......same deal with levers and bolts etc. it has a lot to do with social conditioning and............. monkey does monkey do

Kev, I really don't think any one here hates lever guns or even the cartridges for them. Most of the Die hard African hunters here have a few lever guns of their own. The "hatred" has been directed at those who show up with the rubbish about garret ammo being able to kill any thing in the world and the 45-70 being the geatest gun ever etc. It was funny the first few times but got real old especially after several tried to make useing lever guns a social status statement or a case of the haves Vs the have nots. Most lever guns simply put are illigal to hunt with in Africa outside of high fence operations. I think most of us know that even a 22 LR will kill most anything on the planet it it finds its mark. I think if you are honestly looking about info on hunting Africa with a lever gun and you approach the guys on the African forum in a sincere manner then you will get genuine answears and good advice.

HI,

PC and CHUCKWAGON I think you are both right, but I have changed my thoughts that it is not the lever it self that has many up-set about the lever topic, and more so with the things you two mention,Kev

Kev,

woodleigh may come to the party with a 50-110 bullet !!

I tend to think that the two posters above answered it well, yet I'll add this... I get the feeling, from the past debates, that some folks have it in their mind about how Africa is expected to be hunted. They read all them books, take each other's advise (usually repeated from elsewhere), and come up with a romantic senerio, a vision on how it's done, that must be adhered to or else one is commiting a crime by violating their views. They shoot a few animals, and then say, "I'm one of them now, and you're not welcome unless you do it our way. The alternative is not real hunting, just a stunt of sorts".
What is not admitted to, is that until the very first DG was killed (in history), trying to kill one was indeed a stunt! This applies to each and every cartridge ever used on DG, and to every hunter who shot at DG.
Another point... until they themselves actually shot DG they too were only beginners "masterbating" about it.
They're afraid to share the spotlight with those who do things different.
Of course, not all of them are this way, thank goodness. Most are fine folks whom I enjoy reading about. ~~~Suluuq